Sunday, July 01, 2007

Straight-talk From Iraq

A Marine's quick response

In response to the news blurb about the Marine who put two rounds ("double tap") in a wounded insurgent's head in Fallujah, here's a response from a Marine:

"It's a safety issue, pure and simple. After assaulting through a target, we put a security round in everybody's head. Sorry al-Reuters, there's no paddy wagon rolling around Fallujah picking up "prisoners" and offering them a hot cup a joe, falafel, and a blanket. There's no time to dick around on the target. You clear the space, dump the chumps, and move Are Corpsmen expected to treat wounded terrorists? Negative. Hey Libs ... worried about the defense budget? Well, it would be waste, fraud, and abuse for a Corpsman to expend one man-minute or a battle dressing on a terrorist. It's much cheaper to just spend the $.02 on a 5.56mm FMJ.

By the way, in our view, terrorists who chop off civilian's heads are not prisoners, they are carcasses. Chopping off a civilian's head is another reason why these idiots are known as "unlawful combatants." It seems that most of the world's journalists have forgotten that fact.

Let me be very clear about this issue. I have looked around the web, and many people get this concept, but there are some stragglers.

Here is your typical Marine sitrep (situation report): You just took fire from unlawful combatants (no uniform - breaking every Geneva Convention rule there is) shooting from a religious building attempting to use the sanctuary status of their position as protection. But you're in Fallujah now, and the Marine Corps has decided that they're not playing that game this time. That was Najaf. So you set the mosque on fire and you hose down the terrorists with small arms, launch some AT-4s (Rockets), some 40MM grenades into the building and things quiet down. So you run over there, and find some tangos (bad guys) wounded and pretending to be dead. You are aware that suicide martyrdom is like really popular with these idiots, and they think taking some Marines with them would be really cool. So you can either risk your life and your fire team's lives by having them cover you while you bend down and search a guy that you think is pretending to be dead for some reason.

Most of the time these are the guys with the grenade or vest made of explosives. Also, you don't know who or what is in the next room. You're already speaking English to the rest of your fire team or squad which lets the terrorist know you are there and you are his enemy. You are speaking loud because your hearing is poor from shooting people for several days. So you know that there are many other rooms to enter, and that if anyone is still alive in those rooms, they know that Americans are in the mosque. Meanwhile (3 seconds later), you still have this terrorist (that was just shooting at you from a mosque) playing possum. What do you do? You double tap his head, and you go to the next room, that's what!!!

What about the Geneva Convention and all that Law of Land Warfare stuff? What about it? Without even addressing the issues at hand, your first thought should be, "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

Bear in mind that this tactic of double tapping a fallen terrorist is a perpetual mindset that is reinforced by experience on a minute-by-minute basis. Secondly, you are fighting an unlawful combatant in a Sanctuary, which is a double No-No on his part. Third, tactically you are in no position to take "prisoners" because there are more rooms to search and clear, and the behavior of said terrorist indicates that he is up to no good. No good in Fallujah is a very large place and the low end of no good and the high end of no good are fundamentally the same ... Marines end up getting hurt or die. So there is no compelling reason for you to do anything but double tap this idiot and get on with the mission.

If you are a veteran, then everything I have just written is self-evident. If you are not a veteran then at least try to put yourself in the situation. Remember, in Fallujah there is no yesterday, there is no tomorrow, there is only now. Right NOW. Have you ever lived in NOW for a week? It is really, really not easy. If you have never lived in NOW for longer than it takes to finish the big roller coaster at Six Flags, then shut your hole about putting Marines in jail for "War Crimes".

"Eternal Vigilance Is The Price of Liberty" Thomas Jefferson



A Word About 'Eternal Vigilance'

On June 30, London & Glascow suffered attacks by Three VIED's; Two Mercedes near Picadilly Circus and One Jeep Cherokee at Glascow Airport, all rigged to do a maximum carnage to Innocent Civilians!

These attacks are often date-sensitive, so our people should be Alert & Aware In Public Places like on July 4th, Memorial Day, and
Remember Pearl Harbor Day, etc.

An Ambulance Crew gave a "Heads-Up Alarm" to a smoking Mercedes Saturday, possibly saving Hundreds of lives in London.

Good Show, Mates! reb

John Washburn said...

Semper Fi my friend, and continue giving 'em hell


Dare we think of love & poetry

While tyrants & terrorists attack
the Innocent

When human dignity, and all that is good is in jeopardy...

And a determined Kill-Culture stalks major cities of the world?

That Is the Question. reb

Ray S. MCB29 said...

These brave men and woman should be allowed to do what is ever needed to protect themselves. It is time the politicians in this country untie our troops hands and unleash the most powerful military in the world!

Man with the Muck-rake said...

You wrote:

You just took fire from unlawful combatants (no uniform - breaking every Geneva Convention rule there is)

On this Independence Day, you might be reminded that a similar cry was heard in the British newspapers some 230 years ago about those damned Yankee Colonists who didn't wear uniforms.

So-called 'insurgents' often are ordinary citizens defending themself from aggressive foreign occupation.

Perhaps you missed American History 101?

Melquiades said...

It made me really mad when I saw that news story about the injured insurgent that received a "double-tap". thank god that soldier was not prosecuted. Talk about a moral booster for the troops had it happened. I can fully appreciate what those soldiers go through and fully understand that it is kill or be killed. end of story.

Melquiades said...

what's wrong with love and (esp.)poetry.

"Star Spangled Banner" Francis Scott Key, "The Charge of the Light Brigade" Lord Alfred Tennyson, "Men Who March Away" Thomas Hardy, and so on.

I say we dare! Let us not forget or selves as we enter a dark chapter, Let us not give into pure hatred, because that is what we will become. Leave room in your hearts for the kindness, for the sincere. For without that, we are no longer human.


There's nothing wrong with love, art and poetry in the drawing room.

It just doesn't seem to belong...
In A Combat Zone! reb



I believe I recognize a Contrarian
when I see one. Fellows like this lay out just about anything to stir an argument.

a) I didn't Write that article, 'Straight Talk', I published it.

b) The British did not purposely target the Innocent for Mayhem &
Death; today's Terrorist Does, to instill Fear.

London, Madrid, No Africa, Bali,
NYC (twice), Palestine, Mumbai (Bombay, India), Munich Olympics, etc

They Bomb each others Mosques, strap bombs on their own kids.
Promise virgins to their weak-minded Shahid; Fatah & Hamas kill their fellow Muslims, Shiite & Sunni kill
each other every day. If a Muslim rejects this life, and wishes to adopt a more Peaceful Religion, they cut the guys head off. That's Sharia Law. They treat their women like the family goat. They have "Honor Killing" for a daughter that commits a sex "sin" (even forcible rape)...the parent or older brother cut the young girls throat to protect the family honor; It's Saudi Wahhabism!

Grab a flight to Mecca. It's a lovely trip, (if you hate scenery).
Witness this behavior! You obviously don't get much by just reading about it.

To compare them to 18th Century British, in their attempt to hold onto the 'Colonies' is an absurdity. To characterize these
mad puppets as "ordinary citizens"
is to reveal the depth of your own
historical perspective.

Was Your Professor an Imam that enjoyed sucking on a lil' Hashish?
Did he share his stash w/students? Whew! reb



Gen Washington's Rag-tag troops did
lack uniforms at Valley Forge; some
of them didn't even have shoes! That's a well-known historical fact.

What these pioneer volunteers did have, was a tough determination that is not in evidence by some high-ranked political figures today, that prefer to slander & demean our firm resolve. reb

The Loop Garoo Kid said...


I take extreme exception to your statement that "it" (love, art, and poetry) "does not belong in a combat zone."

I will not address the subject of whether romantic love belongs in a combat zone.

Art and poetry certainly do. Some of the finest artwork in the form of drawings and sketches have been produced by men at arms through history and more recently by members of our armed forces.

So far as poetry is concerned, by way of example and not by limitation, I refer you to the WWI poets: Wilfred Owen, Rupert Brooke, Alan Seeger, John McCrae, Isaac Rosenberg, Siegfried Sassoon, Richard Aldington et alia.



Oh yes, and I'm quite partial to
Kipling's Barrack-Room Ballads...

but not when you're dealing with
Incoming Fire! reb


SEE LEONARDO from Brazil, on our
Anniversary 9/11 Post! reb



NAT. GROUPS DIRECTORY, find your State, then your town!

On August 6th, there's a Big Peace Rally! a Rock Band, Free Kool-Aid,
and Porta-Potties!

(No mention of Pearl Harbor Day).

John Kaiser said...

""It's a safety issue, pure and simple. After assaulting through a target, we put a security round in everybody's head. Sorry al-Reuters, there's no paddy wagon rolling around Fallujah picking up "prisoners""

The media has no concept of what it means to be in a state of war. Their level of ignorance is at time beyond belief.


IF A Senator Can Keep His Head,
and serve his nation with courage,

When all about him, fellow legislators are scurrying about, fearful of their own future in the upcoming election...

And he remains Resolute, both in War, and in Political Debate, knowing
his path is the more difficult, but
the correct and proper decision,

Then you will Recognize A Statesman, My Son! reb

grasshoppermind said...

Great read. Spot on observations of modern soldiering.I will always remember the line, "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6." Does not matter if you think it was a mistake to invade Iraq history will show that it was just a chapter in a long war against terrorism that started a long time before Iraq kicked off. For those folk wanting troops out of Iraq,well OK but remember they will be fighting on many,many more fronts in the foreseeable future. Its time for some leaders in Western Europe to wake up to this fact and help fight terrorism in a much more active way.


Grasshopper Mind from Portugal,

Your "Iraq is just a chapter in the
long history of Terrorism" is well
received by this editor. Thanks, reb


OSAMA bin Laden

Declared al Queda, to be "The Base"
Any logical, prudent mind must quickly concur. It is!

Only the totally sick, evil mind
Would target Innocent Humans,
And claim it to be 'Allah's Will'.

The Loop Garoo Kid said...

Sorry reb. I willmerely ask the questions:

grasshoppermind, interesting sobriquet that, you stated: "If you think it was a mistake to invade Iraq, history will show it was just a chapter in the long waragainst terrorism that started a long time before Iraq kicked off."

Kindly defend that statement. Please address how our national interests were best served by invading Iraq.

On the contrary, I think that history will show that our country devoted an incredible amount of resources to invade a country that posed no serious threat to our national security. History, had any memebr of the current adminitration bothered to read any, show amply that ethnic and sectarian issues in Iraq were present ever since the Brits and the French created the country after WW I, not that those issues weren't present b/f then.

It was perfectly foreseeable by anyone paying attention to history that was is occurring in Iraq now would occur if Saddam Hussein were deposed.

When rating the threats to our nation, Iraq was pretty far down the list. Idf you believe that radical Islamists want to destroy western civilization, which is certainly a defendable thesis, explain how invading Iraq was a blow against radical Islamists.


I'm certain that Grasshopper is quite capable of defending his position, but I'm quick to rile, so
once again, I'll answer first:

Iraq is a tiny spot on the world map, and You May Wish that the battlefield were in Lebanon, or Afganistan, or whereever else, but

There Will Be a final, decisive battle somewhere, and Radical Insurgents will be there too, with Truck Bombs & IED's.

But...Your Loop Garoo View,
is not the Prevailing Reality,

and Bush is now retired to his ranch
in Crawford, Texas, and Harry Reid
is having a retiree's breakfast at
the tiny Nugget Casino in Searchlight, Nevada. (Yeah, he was
thrown out in disgrace too).

Many on the Left may wish the Controntation would just 'Go Away' and that is another fantasy that is

One Of Two Things Are Nearly Certain To Occur...

a) This ugly war will continue for
decades, regardless of who is in the Oval Office, because this is not a Tv Drama, and this is not a Hollywood Scenario!

b) We do the right thing NOW, and remove the Nuclear Underground Labs
and give the Young, Educated Iranians their chance to Throw the Old, Vicious Theocracy Out. Yes, Revolution In Allah's Camp, Or...

c) We Wait for the Grand Ayatollah to
get his Nukes, distribute them to the far corners of Islam, and sit & wait for the Pandemonium, and the
obliteration of all science, all
industry, all philosophies, all of the diverse cultures, all of human progress...We Let It All Die.

An Orbiting Hubble looks down to see...

A last baby's tearful cry, "Why Mama?" reb

The Loop Garoo Kid said...


A few questions:

1. Now that Iraq is a free for all, what is our strategy? Indeterminent presence like S. Korea? Phased withdrawal? What?
One thing for sure, the status quo will continue whether we stay or go. Whereas I am heartened by Sunni tribal leaders enlisting our help, and vice-versa, to expel al Qaeda and other foreign trouble-makers, this is a marriage of convenience and as soon as these tribes deal w/ the foreign fighter issue, they will direct their attention to the Shiite central government which the Sunnis believe has usurped their birth right. So what is the plan here, reb? Permanent bases in Iraq to combat Iran? I don't think the Iraqis want that.

2. Whereas recently I expressed my hope that Iranian youth could effect change in that country, recent events there have reminded me of the forlorness of that hope.
I speak of the Iran Revolutionary Guard, who, by comparison, render the Hitler Youth movement rather tame.

They are a law unto themselves an practice conservative religious vigilantism by force and fear.

Disaffected university graduates are no match for them.

So my question is: Do you really believe that if we had good enough intelligence, which is an entirely separate issue although I urge you to recall the failure of our inelligence in Iraq, is bombing a solution? Or will bombing merely galvanize the revolutionaries to carry the fight to our interests elsewhere? I might add that our ability to protect those interests is greatly compromised by our commitment of resources in Iraq.

I think it is time for some strategy here. I am talking about Plan B because Plan A, bombing facilities where we belive Iran is developing nuclear capabilities is probably not on the table.

Meanwhile, I will editorialize by stating how YD reminds me of other young zealots, mentioned above, particularly with respect to his intolerance of dissent and his willingness to use censorship.

I remind you of Yeat's lines from "The Second Coming":

"The best lack all conviction,
While the worst are full of passioanta intensity."

Oh yeah. I will state again, which you state without so admitting: The threat to our civilzation is spearheaded by religious fanatics in Iran and our commitment of resources in Iraq and our national preoccupation with scraping that off of our shoes is directing our attention from the real threat.



WAR GURUS, Senators Teddy & Harry and a handful of timid Republican Senators, eyeballing their up-coming re-elections, are still Vocalizing, like the Incessant Bleating of Sheep!

Did you expect a "New Direction"?


TRIBAL BICKERING in the Iraq Parliment, with NO Hope of an equitable sharing of Iraqi Oil Assets! No Interest In a National Government, serving Sunni, Shiite,
and Kurdish Interests. None!
Did You Expect a "New Direction"?

*The USA holds the Air & Naval Trump
Cards. The only thing we apparently
lack, is the Will To Do What Is Necessary. The only thing the Radicals Respect & Fear...Is Power.

I'm beginning to question G.W. Bush's quote, "Not On My Watch!"


Lady-Light said...

Ok, Snakehunter--I'm commenting (-you happy now?): I agree with everything in this post, and in general, in most of your posts! Remember, my husband is a Vietnam Vet. We know the whole story. Haven't had the time to read, let alone comment on different blogs. Just returned from a 6-week trip to Israel, for my younger son's wedding. Been a bit busy...keep hunting those 'snakes' & keep up the good work, soldier!


Loop Garoo,

Perhaps you would prefer Dr. Kissinger's new plan for Iraq.

As I understand it, he suggests a
Coalition of all muslim neighbors reaching a rapprochment, including
Iran, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, and Saudi

How many Summit Meetings would that take? Within what time-frame?
If that's Henry Kissinger's true plan, the Iranian Ayatollah would love to drag that out long enough to stockpile his Nuclear Eggs, distribute them to the far corners, then proceed with the unchangable, identical agenda.

"Political Solutions" are best reserved for Civilized Nations.

I'll stick with Reality. reb


samrina said...

Hi Snake hunter,

I wish I could understand this politics n all, i really dnt have any interest or knowledge about the issue so i really cant comment anything on it,but I do pray for for peace and love in this world.

Thanks a lot for your visit at my blog and your smiles :)

Hope to see you around.

Take care


From the N.Y. Times, July 12, 07


A report from one of Islam's Sad Victim's of War, and the hope now on the horizon. reb

The Loop Garoo Kid said...


As if we did not need to chilled enough, check out a piece that aired on July 12, 2007 on All Things Considered on NPR. It concerns the use of the internet by Iraqi insurgents. Go to and do a search for "Iraqi inurgents PR."

The piece concerns the use of the internet by Iraqi insurgents, in particular, how they use readily available film clips of U.S. troops and insurgents with which they put together videos which make it seem as if the insurgents are winning the war. Remember the recipients of these on-line video are at best uncommitted and at worst our opponents and are all too willing to believe what they see.


Americans Are Losing the Propaganda
war over there...And here at home!

Sen Harry Reid's Outrageous 2/19/07 Lie, "Iraq War Is Worse than Vietnam!" (58,000 Dead troops in 10 years, Harry?

Hillary Lie: "If I'm Elected, We'll
Be Out In 90 Days!" (June, 07). All 160,000 troops?

All of the millions of tons of Ordinance, Hillary?

This is not a Tv Drama! If we begin Pull-out Tomorrow, it would take 24 to 30 Months. Shame on you both! reb

The Loop Garoo Kid said...


Agreed. Nevertheless, I would like to make 2 points regarding propaganda. The first is that during WW II, the American government enlisted Hollywood which churned out films that served to galvanized a natinal unity of purpose. Check out some of these films. I saw "Sahara" w/ Humphrey Bogart a few weeks ago. Another film that springs to mind is "Gung Ho" w/ Randolph Scott, Noah Beery, Jr. and Robert Mitchum among others.

Whereas it may be true that the "forces" of Hollywood are almost all against the war in Iraq, they are not necessarily against the war against Islamic extremism.

So, we have on our west coast, the greatest propaganda machine in the world. What use has this administration made of that machine? We can do better than Sly Stallone making Rambo V or whatever (the Last Rambo movie I saw, Johnny R was fighting Soviets in Afghanistan) although we could do worse.

Secondly, the people advising Mr. Bush how to talk to the American people should be summarily fired. Herein lies the problem with surrounding oneself with toadies; sycophants; yes men--well yes people--; and ideologues. Herein lies the problem with failing to talk straight and consider that individually and collectively we, the American people, are not dummies.

On June 28th, Mr. Bush gave a speech in which he mentioned al Qaeda in Iraq 27 times. This begs the issue that al Qaeda in Iraq did not exist before we invaded in 2003 and ABC reported this month that the group may be responsible for only 15% of the attacks in Iraq. The links to Osama bin Laden's organization may be in name only.

Yes, the Sunnis in al Anbar have seen through al Qaeda and decided that it is time for al Qaeda to go. Our alliance with these tribes, however, is a marriage of convenience born of the philosophy that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend," but at the end of the day when al Qaeda has been purged from al Anbar, who will be the enemy then?

But this president truly beleives that if you say something often enough, people will beleive it. To be fair, he is not alone in this.

The president ought to hire you and me. I may disagree with his policies but that doesn't make me un American. I mean if someone in the administration would point out as you have and as Frank Rich--no friend of the President he--did in his Op-Ed piece in the New York Times today, Sunday, July 15, that it would take take at least 10 months to withdraw from Iraq, it would make Hillary look pretty silly.



In WWII, we had many great movies that bouyed the American spirit in
Wartime. Also, a great many Hollywood people, Top-rated Stars, Yes!...
that quickly donned military uniforms. The 'Left Coast' is a different mentality today.

They pander & pimp, create phoney
"documentaries", and most strut to a different drummer. It's a Stage-Presense, without substance. They are "Blowin' In the Wind". reb


"What I have to do is to see...that I do not lend myself to the wrong which I condemn!"

Henry Thoreau, 1849

Debbie said...

I read this at Pedestrian Infidel I think, not sure. It's excellent. This is war, killing the enemy is part of the goal. It's common sense. I don't understand these whiny people who blame America for every fault in world. The enemy chops people's heads off, chops their bodies into pieces, tortures them (I mean REAL torture, not putting panties on their heads.)

Rob Scot said...

Though it is difficult to accept the killing of wounded "civilians," I must remind myself that we are at war. I am not a veteran, but I know enough to realize that no military can win a war through an over-cautious, humanitarian approach. War is not humanitarian. As General William Tecumpseh Sherman rightly realized, war is hell, and the sooner a nation realizes this and acts accordingly, the sooner it will end. I wonder if the Western democracies will ever learn this lesson.
Thank you for your service, sir.

Note: Your comment has been publically posted and responed to at

Rastaman said...

82 years old? You got me beat. I remember The War and my dad going off to fight in it, but I was way too young to join in on that one.

Good blog! I saw your comments on mine and added you to my blogroll. Keep up the good work. I'm convince that our combined voice is making a difference, we're not just preaching to the choir.



Posted On: Pedestrian Infidel

Is "Reforming Islam" a Mission Impossible?
Snake Hunters Sez:

Mission Impossible? Certainly Not!

>>Enter a Latter Day Prophet with a
"Divine Revelation" on his Weblog!

There is little that can be done with Islam's Suicidal Bloodlust...

that cannot be repaired with a courageous copy of our precious
1st Amendment Principles!

Freedom Of Religion, Freedom Of Speech, Freedom Of the Press, and
Freedom to Peacefully Assemble.

The Holy Roman Empire fractured with One Angry Pastor...Martin Luther.

Where there is a Multiplicity of Thought, the Insane Powers of the Grand Ayatollahs and their Puppet Imams will fall like an over-ripe fig, and their women will gain Equal Status With Other Great
Women Of History! reb



First Lady Of The World

Briton's Iron Lady

Daughter Of India

Israel's 1st Woman Premier reb

July 21, 2007 She's In
An Iranian Prison!

*(Check Search Engine) reb

Yankee Doodle said...

Good post. It really gets the point across.

"b) The British did not purposely target the Innocent for Mayhem"

Actually, often times the conduct of the British and their Hessian mercenary allies was so bad and so random that they turned loyalists against the Crown. The British had the reputation, prior to April of 1775, of protecting (through British military tribunals) their troops who were accused of inappropriate conduct, greatly angering the colonists and helping spoil relations between the colonies and the Crown.

Mike said...

I say we send John Kerry over there to follow the fire teams around and check the "wounded" terrorists to see if he can treat their wounds. We'll see who's complaining about the Geneva Convention then!

RoxieAmerica said...

Quoting, "Chopping off a civilian's head is another reason why these idiots are known as "unlawful combatants." It seems that most of the world's journalists have forgotten that fact."

I enjoyed that! One of the things I tried to point out to those saying we should talk to people who chop off human heads -- or it is somehow our fault they chop off human heads!

RoxieAmerica said...

You asked me to come, and see if I could deal with the blog -- lots in common. Forgive me as quote from a previous post: But Those Troops In Iran Don't Bleed! They let local Shiite and Sunni al Queda bleed for them. In Afghanistan it's the Taliban that die, and in Lebanon, the Hezbollah & Sunni do the dying. Same story in Palestine. Hamas & Fatah kill each other, and Iran Oil supplies the money to both of them! The Persian mullahs sit back smugly and Direct the Fire! I think the Shia are a bit more clever than Sunni Arabs.

Why is it our NEWS does not point out what is obvious to those of who have been reading, that Tehran is pulling more strings than any other single nation or group?

I personally consider nation's leaders who lead chants of "death to America" for 3 decades to be not included in my dinner guest list. That's a nice way of saying I don't like them. I'm angry Jimmy Carter's crew gave them a nation. I am angry that they have been left untouched for decades -- and I'm asking why... why... If a nation was ever asking for a war it is Iran. I'm going to add Snake Hunters to my regular browsing.

The Loop Garoo Kid said...


Whereas I share many of your sentiments regarding Iran, your comment "I'm angry Jimmy Carter's crew gave them [the mullahs] a nation" is particularly disturbing for several reasons.

Initially, it assigns blame where there is none and probably indicates a certain absence of critical thought on your part.

Secondly, Jimmy Carter's crew didn't given the mullahs a nation. The Iranian revolutionaires took Iran for themselves w/ results that all of us appreciate--appreciate in the sense of "understand" as opposed to "like."

The U.S. has never been successful and should avoid becoming involved in other countries's wars of self determination. The Vietnamese were fighting a war of self determination long b/f we intervened.

As for isolation, that particular doctrine has its limitations. Has isolating Cuba killed the revolution there?

There are limits to the use of military force. Look at Iraq. After a very successful invasion we now see a war of self determination mixed w/ terrorist activity.

Whereas I am not in favor of rewarding national leaders whose interests are antithetical to those of this country, engagement on some level is a better policy than isolation or military intervention. By way of example but not limitation, see China.


Loop Garoo,

The Shah had a Modern Secular Iran,
and Ayatollah Khomeini was isolated
in Paris, until he could instigate
a take-over Shi'a 1979 Theocracy Revolution. Allah Akbar!

Being Concise Has Value, try it.
Less wordy, more specifics! reb


Loop Garoo,

You do tend to jump around the world map to make a point!
a) Jimmy Carter: He has a Peace-Peanut stuck in his throat!

b) Cuba: They no longer have Russian Nuclear, Inter-Mediate Range Ballistic Missiles, IRBM's pointed at the eastern half of the U.S. Is that so bad?

c) Iran? Self-determination? Is that all it is? Gee, Thanks, I was really beginning to worry about them.
Some Crazy Right-Wingers thought they were really enriching U-235 for A-bomb distribution. Oh, those crazy Neo-Cons! Dubya Lovers! Dennis Kucinich, Please help us!

d) Vietnam? And here I was mislead again! I had the foolish notion that the French Colonial Planners saw a Defenseless Buddhist Culture to grab, and they brought Soldiers &
Teaching, French-Speaking Catholic Nuns, and installed a Puppet French Gov't for a 100 years! Wow! Thanks for straightening us out on Vietnam History, Loop!

e) You say, These problems with Saudi Wahhabism, and Brutal Enforcement of Sharia Law with Piety Police is all wrong, and the
Madrassa Schools teach Math and
Science? You say it's all just a plea for
"Self-Determination?" Well, we really appreciate Loop Garoo's analysis on that! We were really confused, weren't we, Loop?

Your In-Depth Perception adds significantly to our web-site!

Once again, Thanks! reb



Go Now To: (blue) roxieamerica, then...

Tap "Shades Of Red, White, & Blue" as of July 27... "Iran Seeking Sunni/Shiite Unity"...(It reveals in their own words, the treachery & deception of SAUDI AND IRANIAN CUT-THROAT MENTALITY!)

Read Paragraph 4 ~ Saudi Ministry
Of Endowments sponsorship, then

Read Paragraph 9, A Grand Ayatollahs Words on what Shiites plan to do to Sunni, once they get
their "Unity"! Wow!!!

It's Only Four Printed Pages for the entire exposition. reb

The Loop Garoo Kid said...


W/ all due respect, you need to read a little history. You may feel about things as much as you like. But opinions do not historical analysis make. By way of example, your comment about the removal of ICBMs from Cuba. That was a U.S.-USSR issue not a U.S.-Cuba issue.

Just answer this simple question: Has our policy of isolating Cuba been a success? If so, why or why not?


Loop Garoo, There You Go Again!

First Error: The Russian Nuke Missiles in Cuba were not I.C.B.M. (Inter-Continental), tbey were Intermediate Range, I.R.B.M.'s.
(You really should read my stuff more carefully).

Cuba is after all, only 90 miles from our U.S. Shoreline. Hello!

Second Error: You missed my point.
Cuba is no longer a Strategic, Nuclear Threat. Now, we have bigger
fish to fry.

Thirdly, I don't require a 1962 reading of history to recall the John F. Kennedy/Nikita Khruschev Confrontation. I remember it, as if
it were yesterday!
Surely you must become weary of picking on fifteen year old Yankee
Doodle, correcting an ancient, weak-minded old blogger like myself, and choosing to harrass a knowledgable john washburn. These weblogs must surely appear to be Unworthy Challenges.

So, I invite you to Step-Up-In-Class to a more sophisticated genre. Also, you'll appreciate the more suitable grammar, and far less Typo's & Misspelled Words!

Try this fellow: Donald Douglas, at

He's A pro-Victory Associate Professor of Political Science in Long Beach, California.

"The Wisest Mind Has Something Yet To Learn!"

Have Fun, Loop Garoo...and Bona Fortuna! reb

Donald Douglas said...

Hi Ralph: Thanks for me sending over here! This is one awesome post. So glad to find your page. I'll be linking to you and coming over to comment.

I wish the essay could get the widest possible distribution. I'll be gone the next week or so, and will not be blogging. But I'll put up a post on "living in the NOW" when I get back.

Please visit my blog at your leisure. It's great to develop a pro-victory community.

Burkean Reflections


Professor Douglas, July 28, 2007

I am grateful...for you generous, and refreshing approval of our Snake Hunters
Weblog. It is our aim to be accurate
and duly cautious in dealing with vital historical data.

Having had a rather successful coaching background in both AAU and local Age-Group Swimming Competition, I know the value of Team Spirit. Now in the Prime of My Life (Hah!), I am delighted to be invited to join with you as an active member of your Pro-Victory Community.
I want you to know, that I was so impressed with your 'Burkean Reflections' Essay, that I took the
29 pages to Staples today,
had several bound copies printed, and
intend to use it tutorially, in private conversations.

Cordially Yours, For A Better Tomorrow! reb

The Loop Garoo Kid said...


Will do. It is always interesting and frequently informative to follow you around cyberspace.


Law and Order Teacher said...

I am honored that you have posted on my blog. My statement that Bismarck was the greatest statesman ever is just my opinion. I have always felt that his unification of all the Germanic states was an amazing feat. As far as Jefferson goes I love the sentiments of the Declaration. However, he and some of the other founding fathers had a little problem with the follow through.

I am a veteran of Vietnam and I support what you are espousing on your site. Thanks again.


Yes Sir, thank you.

The generations then, and those that followed faced squarely, the multiple problems large and small, and they confronted them with courage and with dignity for 230 years, for many generations. When evil forces loomed on our horizon, we have always been equal to the challenge to our sacred honor & to our heritage.

Our military and law enforcement people see Evil Every Day, face equally
difficult problems with skill, with from-the-gut Determination. But, will our civilian population fold, for lack of personal knowledge, and fail to see the need for A Unity of Purpose? Will they Cave In, rather than denounce the constant drum-beat of skillfully crafted Hate Propaganda?

This confrontation with International Wahhabi Jihad is a 100 year-old Religious Plot to Rule The Peace-Loving Infidel Everywhere; it's not a stage-play,
a Tv Drama, nor a Hollywood Script or Scenario. They Really Do Fly Planes Into Buildings, strap bombs on their kids, stone 'sinful' women to death! It's a 1400 year old Kill-Culture, wrapped in an Ancient
Religious Murder Cult...
and some Dopey Americans believe they are watching a "Horror-Flick".
They should take their next Spring
Break to Rhiyad, Saudi Arabia and witness a Friday Beheading! Yeah,
that's their Muslim "Holy Day".

We should Crown the next looney-tune with an inverted paper-cone when he sez, "It's All About Oil".
I saw one a few days ago with a
Bumper-Sticker that read...


Will the pious wind-bags & puppets of Political Bias...that whine and demean, ridicule, and defame our strong leadership prevail? Not on my watch, not if I can help it. That's Why I Blog! reb

(Sorry folks)

The Loop Garoo Kid said...


You are treading on thin ice here.

Cannot one be against pious windbags; Whahabi jihadism; and the President at the same time?


WHEN A PREPONDERANCE OF THE EVIDENCE CLEARLY IDENTIFIES A HOME-GROWN ENEMY TRAITOR, and former Communist Party Leader, that now leads her dupes, puppetista and fellow-travelers into self-destructive "Peace Alliances"...

It's time to take a hard look at
Those Groups, and the Motivations that are INIMICAL to the Best Interests of Our Country. It's time to sound the Fire Bell, Period!
a) Go to: Yahoo Search Engine
b) Type: U.F.P.J.
c) Click, Member Groups Directory
d) Scroll down to Your State & Town. Surprise!
When Hillary Clinton changes her label from 'Liberal" to "Progressive"....

When the World Worker's Party (WWP) switches to a slick Socialist Label, it's still a Predator Wolf. Hide the kids, grab your Shotgun. We Are Under Attack! Believe It, Or Don't You?

Refuse to accept a, b, c, & d ?
"You're In Denial" baby!

* August 6,7,8 ~ Hiroshima Days!

** October 27th, "Massive Regional Actions To End The War In Iraq!

Thin Ice? Sue me, Counselor! reb



You misspelled Wahhabism.


On January 16, 2006 this S/H Blog
cautioned readers to be Alert For
Favorite Key Words & Phrases Used
By Leslie Cagan's U.F.P.J. Smear
Campaigns. That Post is still on this Blog. Have A Look!
Action, Activists, Alliance, Environment, Grassroots, Justice, Peace, "Progressive"...some in a variety of combinations, like Peaceroots, Students For, Veterans For...Lesbian/Gays For...

Also, at certain Church Parking On Sunday, look for The Peace Signs Galore!

Bumper Stickers With "Stop the War,
Get Us Out Of Iraq, Stop the Bombs,
Impeach Bush/Cheney! etc

Get The Picture? We'll Keep Trying;
Tell a few close friends,
Cuz Freedom Is Worth Saving! reb

WomanHonorThyself said...

wow..thanks for the comment at my humble abode and Keep up the good Fight!!!



Allowing bold truth to penetrate a
thick skull, Observe! The benefits
that flow from the decision are just...
Incredible! reb (print)

The Loop Garoo Kid said...


No U.F.P.J. branches in my town; only 17 in the entire state of which one is achurch and another is a school of Theology.

Sorry about mispelling Wahhabism but I think we all deserve a little leeway w/ translations from Arabic. I mean how many different spellings are there for the surname of the leader of Libya?



No wobbily excuses, fellow. There are Four In Boulder, Four listed under Colorado Springs, w/ these
names: First Congressional, also
Syndy Kulp, Dennis Apuan, Thomas
McCullock. Do any of those ring a bell? Three 719 phone numbers, too.

All heavy advocates of "Peace". reb


Do you mean, Libya's

Moan-N-mar Kee-daffy?


LionHeart said...

Thanks for visiting my blog Snake hunetr.

God bless you


The Loop Garoo Kid said...


I visited Lionheart's site long enough to read his profile and a few of his comments. The voice of his his profile seems a bit apocalyptic. This prompts me to suggest that perhaps this an appropriate juncture to discuss the ends for which we are striving.

I am not a Christian but my knowledge of Christian theology instructs that Jesus promoted peace and even non violence. He was after all, "the Prince of Peace." Accordingly, it is no surprise that a church in Colorado Springs or the Iliff School of Theology which is affliated w/ the University of Denever, are UFPJ members.

Obviously, radical Islam is a threat to our security and "world peace" by which I mean peace in divers countries and regions.

Obviously this enemy must be contained to the best of our ability b/c quite frankly, given the nature of Islam and its practicioners, erradicating radical Islam is beyond our capabilities. I believe neutralization is the best for which we can hope.

Now the discussion turns to method.
I do not think there is one method that will work across the board. Part of the solution is militarism, part is diplomacy.

I request that you articulate the threat you perceive is posed by the UFPJ b/c I have yet to see that organization as influential.



Not Influential, LGK?

You Cannot Be Serious! You Must Be Joking! Stop Pulling My Chain!

Thirteen Hundred Local & National Groups. Campus "Organizers" in the
Major Universities protesting Military Recruitment! Five 'New Pacifica' Radio Stations at Los Angeles, Berkeley, Houston, NYC, and Washington, D.C. w/ Leslie Cagan sitting on these Bd of Director Meetings; the ability of
U.F.P.J. to mount major "Peace Rallies" that draw several hundred
thousands of people in D.C., w/ Susan Saradon, Jane Fonda, and the Reverand Jesse Jackson grinning at the Tv cameras.

Well, Cagan puts on One Helluva Show, wouldn't you say? Did you even bother to see if there is a...
Hiroshima Days Event in Colorado on August 6,7, 8,?? (There's One Here In Oak Ridge).

I don't believe it's Spontaneous Combustion, but I've always been an
overly suspicious fellow. I smell something FOUL in the air!

These Events Take Big Bucks! I sniff a Billionaire, and I would guess he's no fan of the "Prince Of Peace" either. reb


I suspect an...

Ideopathic Symptom Here, arising spontaneously from a mysterious, obscure, and unknown source. There is clear evidence of Stubborn Denial,
even when hard, incontrovertible facts are presented.

Subject has chosen to ignore my feeble efforts, and having expended
nearly all of today's energy on one
client, I'll soujorn to Starbuck's.

Peace, and Goodwill To All. reb


On 7/31/07 the Loop Garoo commented,

"NO U.F.P.J. branches in my town; only 17 in the entire

(His Town, is a suburb of Denver),
w/Apsara Images, Prisana Nuechterlein; Colorado Campaign For
Middle East Peace, w/Nancy Stohlman & Nadya Waziri; ILIFF School of Theology, SOCIAL ACTION Committee, w/Virginia Trabulsi.

I'm certain if I were residing in that neighborhood, I would be curious about their "Social Action" (Sounds Suspect),
and I'd be checking the Bumper Stickers in the Park Area. (I admit it, I'm a Very Nosey Guy).
Oh Loop, How far is it from your
Front Door, to the Denver City Hall? Maybe you can make the Big
U.F.P.J. Parade on October 27th?



Now, he says if Musharref won't go after bin Laden in his hideaway in
Northern Wasiristan, We Should Do It! Bomb 'em!

Whhaat? Pakistan Is A Sovereign Nuclear Power, an Ally On Terror,
a General Staff that supports Pervez Musharref! Is Obama Serious?

What do the other Democratic nominees think about that?

Is Obama Trying To Out-Bush Dubya?
Is it just More Electioneering Hot-Air Gas-bag Rhetoric? Stay tuned, folks, the liberals are really taking the Gloves Off Now! It's...

Brass-KeeNuckle Time! Hah. reb

RoxieAmerica said...

Those who believe Iran is not threat, and has no connections to al-Qaeda my links continue to grow. Today's link comes from the Iranian underground and from students jailed in Iran for protesting. They report an Iran, Hezbollah, al-Qaeda connection. The list continues to grow.


Thank you, roxie,

Yes! The Shiite Hezbollah (Persian) linking with Sunnis al Queda (Arab) is a Modus Vivendi (temporary arrangement) to Violently Subdue All Opposition to
Theocratic Domination!

All who dare to insist that they retain Freedom of Religious Choice, Freedom to Elect Leadership, and Freedom Of Independent Thought...Shall Be Snuffed Out. Allah Akbar!

Once The Grand Ayatollahs of Iran succeed, they will then be free to
crush their Arab Co-conspirators!

Now, all they need are the Nukes!

Believe It or don't you, that's the Ideotic Goal. Whew! Wake Up, America...ZZzzzz! reb



To a Dog, you are Family.

To a Cat, You're Staff!


Environmentalist Tag of an SUV:

Six Thousand Pounds of Moving Metal,

For One Macho-Fat-Ass Delivered!

The Loop Garoo Kid said...


NY has 249 chapters; CA 175. I am not sweating 17 chapters, most of whom seem harmless.

The Colorado Campaign for Middle East Peace, on the hand, seems tailor made for our friend Mohamed. Formed in 1990 to protest the U.S. buildup for GW I, it has as it's 2nd tenet to stop support of "the illegal occupatiion of Palestinian Territories by Israel."

The statehouse steps are not so far but I suspect I will doing something else on October 27, unless you want me to show up and take pix for you in which case I may reconsider.


Pictures of the "Big Show" in Denver would be exciting. You might even make the Denver Post!

I believe Ms Cagan probably knows
that there are more Electoral Votes
in N.Y. and California. She's a real Bad-Witch Wizard, Loop; She snacks on Werewolf!

Watch yer Mailbox in a few days!


I listened to Bill O'Reilly Factor
the other night, and he urged his
audience to check out a Hate-Blog!
That's unlike him.

So, I tapped Daily Kos, because he
said they were having a Yearly Kos
Convention in Chicago, and Nine of
the Ten Democratic Nominees would be there. Only Sen. Joseph Biden had declined the invitation. Hmmm.

Then O'Reilly asked, "Why would any
of them show up? It's a Pure Hate Venue, a Far-Out Left Blogsite with
dirty languange and abusive rhetoric all the time. It's What They Do!"

Being a curious guy, I tapped into, and the first page dealt with a logical & humorous treatment of Gas-guzzling SUV's.

Second Page, headline: IMPEACH THE M....F.....! w/ a dozen similar references, plus Available Bumper Stickers. Good Grief! Politicians have advisors, sharp people, Shrewd high-rolling Investors...
Contributing Big Bucks.

Whhhaaaat's Going On Here?
Now, I'll rephrase Mr O's question:

Why Would Top Reasonable, Rational,
Responsibile Democratic Candidates,
hoping to garner public support in
A Major 2008 Election Year, risk it? Why Identify Their Good Names, and Causes, With The Cheap, The Ugly, Stinking, Sleeze & Slime of This Organization? Why?
This Editor has been around for a while. I've never seen campaigning This Depraved, Ever!

Perhaps we've lost our Moral Compass, and no longer deserve to
be a beacon of hope for the world.
We've all lost something. I feel a
sadness tonight that I cannot describe.



Prof. Douglas, Tony, Roxie, John Washburn, debbie, j.kaiser, Yankee...

Go to:




EMPLOY LOGIC...Stick with Our "Dubya" For A Few Brief Months, then...


Anonymous said...

I had the opportunity to meet Snake Hunters today in Oak Ridge, TN... a very nice encounter! For those that only see his online posts in this blog, you're only getting half of his story. To see a patriot's passion in person is a moving experience.

Very nice talking to you today and thank you for your WWII service. Whether you like the term applied to yourself or not, your service helped save the world some 60 years ago... that makes you a true hero in the hearts and minds of many like me. They don't give out Purple Hearts to just anybody.

This war in the Middle East is one that ought to be kept in perspective. The world has seen two sides of our fighting force. I spent my time with the US Central Command and I was a part of the Iraqi invasion. We drove across that desert like we owned the place with a fighting force that took very little resistance. We waltzed right into the capital city and were greeted as heros by the locals. No one can deny the support we mustered back home and the awesome might our boys demonstrated in the field... our fighting forces were impeccable.

Then came the aftermath (phase 2). We always knew urban warfare would be the most dangerous. I moved over to Special Operations Command (across the street from CENTCOM) to support the effort. Our military was not designed to be police and stabilize a country. Our forces were intended to beat and defeat a fighting enemy (which we did superbly). I still contend that if we removed the political/ diplomatic element from the equation and simply handed the stabilization of Iraq over to the Military, we'd take care of this in fairly short order. But, we mix politics and diplomacy with military activity and we're getting a lot of kids killed. If there's one thing I can fault our government with in handling this war, it's that we gave a damn about showing true faith in returning Iraq to the Iraqis rather than risk being seen as imperialists hell-bent on occupying Iraq. It seems we learned nothing from Vietnam in that manner. Give it to the Generals with orders to secure the country... PERIOD. I believe it would then be better handled.

It's also worth noting the ever-changing dynamics of war today. One of your earlier bloggers (a Marine) said these guys are in civilian attire shooting from religious and historically significant sites (a clear violation of the Geneva Conventions and LOAC "Law of Armed Conflict") Fact is, our enemy doesn't care. It's analogous to the early days of this country when the British lined up in rows to fight. The front row dropped on one knee, while the back row fired... they were sitting ducks and it's hard for us (in modern day) to imagine ever fighting that way.. it's noble, but stupid! When our American militia adopted the guerilla tactics of hiding behind trees and rocks, it was unconventional and considered barbaric... and the British had their a$$ handed to them anyway. Fast forward 200+ years and we now believe the tactics of our enemy are barbaric... and it is. But, it is effective to say the least against what ought to be a superior fighting force (just like 200+ years ago). We must learn to deal head on with the way they fight. Calling them cowards and names in public doesn't do much for us when they are using IEDs and suicide bombs against us. We must adapt to their way of fighting and defeat them on their own terms. (and "no, that doesn't mean strapping a suicide vest to a corporal")

During the Persian Gulf War, I served in Desert Shield, Desert Storm, and Southern Watch. I spent my time in Saudi, UAE (United Arab Emirates), Yemen, Bahrain, and Kuwait. During my tour in Kuwait, I met a local (can't recall his name) who was the caretaker of the Kuwaiti POW camp (now a museum). This "camp" was used to detain local Kuwaiti civilians... the youngest was 8 years old. This care taker was held captive and put through hell during his detainment. Meat hooks hang from the ceilings wear detainees hands were cuffed behind their backs and their body was hung from those cuffs. They put this guy in a fetal position and he was blind folded. Every 30 seconds, he was punched in the face... 30 seconds later punched again, 30 seconds later punched again. After a while he would anticipate the whack and would flinch... so they'd stop and let him anticipate a punch that never came. When he'd finally relax... WHAM!!! Iraqi Intelligence would handcuff captives and throw them from buildings, tie their hands to a stone and whack the fingers off with a wooden stick, and left bodies in a state that literally sent 3 of my soldiers running from the room before getting sick. It never ceases to amaze me how much cruelty a single human being can have within them... and the very thought of it (as I type) takes the wind right out of me. The Iraqi intelligence were required to trained at least 2 years before they could torture a true detainee. They bought death-row inmates from other countries and would practice their tactics on them to perfect the method. They used psychology too. They knew that tearing a woman's clothing from her body had a greater effect on her and forcing a man to strip himself was more effective on men. These were not random acts, they were deliberate acts that they were highly trained to perform "perfectly". When I left the Middle East, I spent the next decade wondering why we never did anything about it when our gov't knew it was happening. The first Bush said we couldn't muster the international support for a full invasion back then (and we let diplomacy and politics stop us). I bear first-hand witness to the aftermath of those atrocities and still I can hardly believe what I saw.

Whether we found WMD in Iraq or not, we gave Iraq a much needed enema. It's tough for folks to remember, that the factions in Iraq didn't exist before Sadaam's rule. The Sunni, Shia, and Kurds lived in relative peace with each other before that S.O.B. came to power. Sadaam and the Baath Party were minorities in Iraq and gained power through a coup and maintained it with ruthless terrorism (threat of torture, mass executions, etc). You either aligned yourself with the government or found yourself or (worse) your family in grave danger. This divided the country into ethnic factions that, 30-40 years later, hate each other. It will literally take a generation to breed out the hate that took a generation to create. Whether we found WMD or not, this lone Christian patriot believes we spent a lot of American lives saving innocent Iraqi civilians that were brutally oppressed and the decade that I spent wondering about an unfinished job is now vindicated... I'm at peace with what we've done and I'm not concerned about WBD hidden in the sand. I've spent the last 17 years in and around the military and the daily American body count does things to my soul that I can't explain... it really hurts. Like everyone else, I can hardly wait for the day we can bring'em home... but they have unfinished work to do.


Yes, I met this guy Sunday. He knows the "Territory". I wish he had left his initials, like L.B., maybe?

(I meet many people at Starbucks, when I take an outside table). reb

Donald Douglas said...

Hi Ralph!

I'm back from my trip to Washington. We did take the train through Philadelpia, and we veiwed downtown while passing by, though we didn't stop. That visit will have to wait for another time.

Thank you for visiting my blog. I'll be over to check out some of your work here soon.

Have a great week!

The Loop Garoo Kid said...

Dear Anon.

Tyou for the thoughtful comment, w/ which I was in complete agreement until your last paragraph. While it is true that Iraq was in grave need of an enema, I believe that so far as our country is concerned, the cure was worse than the disease.

If I concede that factions in Iraq live relatively peacefully w/ one another b/f Saddam seized power, I am compelled to point out that the prospects for a successful democracy in Iraq are zero.

Iraq, as a region has continuosuly been under the control of an autocrat from prehistoric times until today: ancient Mesopotamia; Archaemenid Persians; the Hellenes; Parthians; Sassinid Persians; the Islamic Caliphate; the Mongols; the Persians (again) the Ottoman Turks; the British Mandate; teh Hamshemite Monarchy; the "Republic" or Iraq, which was a military dictatorship; Saddam's "revolution"; the Coalition Provisonal Authority; and, breaking w/ tradition, the Malaki government.

Democracy functions only when peoples' primary loyalty is to their institutions of government as opposed to their family; tribe; or sect.

We Americans had a tradition of representative government that was more than 150 year old b/f we declared our independence from Great Britain. We then took a mulligan w/ the ASrticles of Confederation, b/f getting it right w/ the Constitution. Barely 7 decades later we suffered a cataclysm in the form of a civil war in which the issue was whether civilization could tolerate the ownership of one human being by another.

A century after the coinclusion of that war, people of color in this country still were denied basic human rights.

I point out these facts not to criticize our nation but to remind the readers of this blog that the United States did not spring full grown from the head of Zeus and that our democracy remains a work in progress.

As for the civil war, one could argue that one cause was southerners loyalty to their states as opposed to the federal government, but slavery was the central issue.

The modern state of Iraq was created by the Brits and the French after WW I who drew up the cpountry on the map. It is a conglomeration of different ethnic groups and sects which are primarily tribal societies. This is barren ground upon which to grow a democracy.

I submit that what is occurring in Iraq was which deposition was inevitable once we invaded. I further submit that the increase in the regional influence of Iran was also perfectly foreseeable and that Iran poses a greater threat to our national security and regional security than Saddam did post GW I.

Saddam was an evil despot. But when I weigh the cost of his deposition against the benfits, I believe the price was too high.

I could go on for pages about cause and effect, but rather than do that, let us examine the following proposition in which I believe absolutely: So long as we are deployed, complete anarchy may be avoided. Apres nous, le deluge until some strongman seizes control to impose order. We can only hope that he will be more benign than Saddam.

So was it worth the price in blood and dollars? Ws it worth everything that it has cost us? For me, the answer is no.

Certainly many of my friends and acquaintances; together w/ strangers and my detractors disagree w/ me.

I merely pose this question: Did the invasion of Iraq and the deposition of Saddam Hussein make America more secure? I think not.



FROM TIME TO TIME I've been asked,
about my personal Tv preferences in news sources.

In an attempt to maintain a "Fair &
Balanced Approach" on this blog, I find CNN's Lou Dobb's reportage on
Immigration, where he is vigorous in his equal criticism of politics ala President Bush, Sen. Kennedy, and Catholic Cardinal Mahoney, Dobbs is uniquely refreshing and bold, and FOX News Britt Hume, Shep Smith, John Gibson, and Neil Cavuto's analysis to be in keeping within the best traditions of Journalism.

If you enjoy Bashing Bush, then you
should stay with MSNBC.

What's your view of Cable News? reb

Anonymous said...

Wow! Great arguments going here...
I'll put up a link and pop back! Feel free to leave a link or tracback anytime over at Dumb Ox.
All the best,
D. Ox

Anonymous said...

Loop Garoo Kid,
A very interesting perspective on my comments (re: giving the Sadaam gov't an enema). I've spent a great deal of my adult life in and around the Middle East and, you're right, there is a long history of conflict in the region between ethnic groups. My point was the level of hate and willingness to kill rival groups wasn't as prominent prior to Hussein’s rule. You do touch on (what I see as) a problem with U.S. foreign policy and that of our Western Allies (France, Britain, etc.) Middle Easterners don’t think like we do. They don’t recognize the political boundaries in the same way that we do. You mention the Brits and the French drawing the map of modern day Iraq. You might also consider Pakistan as a similar example. This was a country carved out of northern India and reserved for the Pushtar (sp?), Afghans, Kurds, and some Indian stragglers (PAKI-stan). Although that’s not the true derivative of the name, it’s a good way of remembering who lives there. The people that live in Pakistan don’t really recognize the political boundaries as we do. The Afghans have family just over the border in Afghanistan, the Kurds have family throughout the region (including Iraq, Turkey, Syria, and elsewhere), and the Indians are much the same. You might also consider it didn’t work out as well as we’d hoped when we carved Israel out and gave the world’s holiest turf (Jerusalem) to a Jewish state. That area is the holy land to Jews, Christians, and Muslims alike. I think any place on the planet would have made more sense than inciting the Middle East with a Jewish state in Jerusalem… but, it is what it is.

There are strong ethnic ties that don’t recognize lines on a map drawn by westerners. In Iraq, we have a similar problem as we do in these other areas of the Middle East. The Iranians are Shi’a Muslims and they have a strong kinship with the Shiites who now enjoy majority rule in Iraq. That’s a dangerous relationship for our men and women in uniform. Hussein was a Sunni (a minority in Iraq) and maintained his power through purely evil tactics… including war with Iran where he his best known for chemical attacks on Iranian (Shiite) villages. Sadaam (in my estimation) knew the key to maintaining his minority rule was repelling Iranian support for the Shi’a Muslims throughout Iraq. I suspect we could learn a lesson from that… we need to keep Iran out of Iraqi domestic affairs. The best way to do that is probably best left to the POLAD (Political Advisor) to commanders in the region. The job of the POLAD is to identify those opportunities and advise the commanders how to best exploit them for the benefit of our mission in Iraq. I believe Iran will continue their covert operations to provide arms and support to the Shi’a in the region and I believe Syria will do the same on Iraq’s western border to support the Sunnis. We just need to assume that the foreign influence will not go away (ever) and we should determine what is the best way to stabilize the area and foster some semblance of peace given the dynamics of foreign influence from Iraq’s neighbors.

Whether for or against the war in Iraq, the fact remains that we are there now. One bitter little pill for veterans like me to swallow is the business concept of “sunk costs”. Regardless of what we’ve sunk into an effort (be it a project, a war, a business opportunity, etc) the way forward has very little to do with what we’ve expended in the past (money, lives, resources, etc). We have to except where we are (in the here-n-now), what are our national security goals and objectives, and what is the best way forward for achieving them. It’s hard for me to except abandoning the mission… it’d feel like a lot of lives lost in vain. But, what’s in the best interest of our country (in the here-n-now) and the foreseeable future? Right now, the effort has focused on transfer of power back to the Iraqis so we can get the hell outta there. Like Bosnia (and despite a current leftist push to set a hard date for withdrawal), I suspect the withdrawal will be so subtle, that it’ll be barely recognized. Does anyone remember the “great day” that we pulled out of Bosnia? I doubt it. I spent a year there as we transferred the SFOR (Stabilization Force) over to the International Police Force; a force of law enforcement officers from all over the world that serve as a bridge between military action and civilian rule. It’ll take time and resolve to force the Iraqis to except peace, to turn against the terrorist thugs that disrupt the daily lives of the common people, and (as I said in a prior post) we’ll need to modify our approach to handle an enemy that doesn’t play by our rules of engagement (law of armed conflict - LOAC). I see these buffoons in much the same way as the Mafia was seen years ago in our own country. We’ll have to get tough and, perhaps, use underhanded tactics to root them out. There was a time when people paid for their “protection” and the Mafia ruled the streets through fear and intimidation. Oddly enough, some people even had an affection for the gangsters for providing booze and living a charmed life. These goons in Iraq are doing the same thing… we have to make the distinction in the hearts and minds of ordinary Iraqis that they (personally) are in grave danger when they deal with the thugs that continue to destabilize Iraq.


The Loop Garoo Kid said...


I agree w/ lmost everything you wrote. Although I believe the war in Iraq was a dreadful foreign policy mistake, we are there and we need move forward. As you point out, it will be necessary to minimize foreign influence in Iraq which, given the fractious nature of the populace, is indeed a daunting task.

On the way to work this morning, I heard an interview w/ Marcus Lutrell on NPR and he too commented on a need to change the rules of engagement, which I now understand to be one of the major themes in his book which I will read sooner or later.

I think I am persuaded by the British view on terrorists. They are criminals. Fighting a war against criminals is different from fighting a conventional war.

Not a week goes by w/o an article about a confrontation between peace officers and an armed citizen which usually ends w/ the death of the citizen b/c of the rules of engagemnent that the peacer officers follow. Perhaps this should be the paradigm.

So far as w/drawal is concerned, everything that I have read about the subject indicates it will be a logistical challenge, although that may be an understatement.

It seems as if there are two types of terrorists in Iraq. Those w/ foreign origins and the domestic variety. The Iraqis, as we have seen, are tiring of the former who offer nothing but endless violence while being locusts w/ respect to the hospitality of their hosts.

The latter pose a much bigger challenge. How do you deal w/ the Mehkti Army if you are an ordinary Iraqi?

And then there is the issue of corruption, a subject, which itself will require multiples posts.

I appreciate your feelings about abandoning the mission. It seems that the members of our military have a much better understanding of the mission certainly than I do. One reason for this is the shifting of the ends of the invasion by the administration.

Personally, I never thought the wasr was about oil, but I cannot tell you what is was about. WMD?
Regime change? Spreading freedom?

I think we can agree about the mission now, however, and that is executing an exit strategy that does not leave Iraq in a political shambles.



Loop Garoo,

There Is Only One 'Exit Strategy' That The Freedom Coalition Need To
Focus On; EXIT THE PIOUS Old Bastard Leadership Of Kill-Culture Iran! Take Out Their Underground Nuke Labs, and you Neuter Them!

Only then, will their Military Generals Move Toward A Revolutionary Regime Change, And A Modern Secular Governance. reb

The Loop Garoo Kid said...


Given the strength and fervor of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, I don not see a regime change occurring in Iran sua sponte.

Is a civil war possible between the Guard and the regular army? I do not know the answer to that one, but what's in it for te regular army?.

Here is something you can take to the bank. If the United States bombs Iran, or even if Iran is bombed by a surrogate--Saudi Arabia, Irael, whomever, every Iranian who hates the Mmullahs will become an instant patriot.

There are times for uilateral military action. Afghanistan was one such time. Th einvasion of Iraq, howver, has empowered Iran and limited our options, rather than increasing them. The isssue for us still remains--do we wish to be Athens or Sparta?



Loop Garoo, Sir!

There Are Only Two Viable Options.

a) Do Nothing...Allow Iran to Continue with U-235 Enrichment, or

b) Take Out The Underground Labs!

YOUR WORDS Equal More Delay. reb

The Loop Garoo Kid said...


I am going to call on you to consider various consequences of your suggestion to bomb Iran. Let us ask a hypothetical question, that question being "What if" we did attack Iran, assuming that we actually know where the labs are, which in consideration of past failures of intelligence in the region, is certainly no given.

Is the United States currently in a position to go to war w/ Iran? I am not a military logistics expert but it seems as if our commitments in Iraq and Afghanistan have stretched the resources of our military.

In for a penny, in for a pound so us bombing Iran would not appear to be currently in the cards.

The population of Iraq is about 26.8 million; the population of Iran is abpout 70 million.

If we commit an overt act of war, against Iran, those 70 million people become instant patriots.

What do you think would happen if Iran bombed our facility in Oak Ridge? I think it would be safe to bet that a whole lotta Dubya bashers would become instant patriots.

We have witnessed the result of unilateral action in Iraq. We continue to pay that price.

Sometimes military action is the best solution, sometimes not.

We can always do more but once committed militarily, we can never do less. Unless you can guarantee a military victory which would result in the capitulation of the Iranian government; a regime change; both w/o a need for US occupation, then espousing a policy of bombing Iran is bad solution to the problem.


Mr. Loop Garoo,

Your "Overt Act Of War" is committed every day By Iran! When
they send IED technology into Iraq,
plus R.G. Officers Into Iraq to kill American Troops, it's time we
take The Offensive.

It's Now, or wait for us to Implement Reid/Pelosi Exit Strategy.

All Sniff, Hot-Sauce, & Sizzle, but where's the Rib-Eye Steak?

Our 3rd & 4th Armoured Divisions, 1st Marine,
And Air-Assault Capabilities will
take good care of anything the Persian Army can muster. We have the GPS Grid-Maps for Surface and Under-ground Facilities. It's time they receive a bloody nose.

It will be very quick, like Bagdad. Turn 'em loose! If Iran offers a stiff resistance, Allah help them. reb


It's 5*7*5 S/H 'Haiku' Fun-Time!__________________________________

Sample, using 5, then 7, then 5 Syllables...S/H creations.


Needle & the knife

Gives the face & boobs a lift,

Nothing for the Soul.


Hatred Is For Sale

More Smart Mouths From Hollywood,

Impeach Bush, You Goons!


Try it, you'll be hooked! reb

Anonymous said...

God Loves a Balance

He Made Angel & Devil

These Two, Prance About!


submitted by Al

The Loop Garoo Kid said...

The U.S. will treat the Iranian Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist organization subject to guidelines set for in Ececutive Order 13244 which President Bush signed on Septemeber 20, 2001. Yiou listen to details on NPR or read them at the Fox News website.

What are our 3rd and 4th armored divisions and the 1st Marine Division doing right now. Could they be deployed to make a run @ Tehren? Last time I checked, invading a country was an enormous undertaking.


Loop Garoo,

You misunderstand my thought;
there is No Need To Invade Iran!

The 3rd & 4th, plus 1st Marines plus Our Air-Power, are fine in place, to defend Iraq!

I truly believe the Young Iranians and probably most of Khomeini's RevGuardCorp, plus Reg Army units
will, once Iran's Nuke Capability is nuetralized, will defect! Am I
so far off-base? Remember this: Iran is mostly young, modern & secular!

Iran is a Shi'a Minority at 15% of Muslims in the area. The al Queda is Radical Sunni, but Does Not Represent Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait, UAE, and Saudi Arabia!

Ahmadinejad is orchestrating a huge bluff; We hold the trump cards! reb


Consult Your Dictionary >>>

Political Morass (a marsh, swamp;
something that traps, confuses, or impedes. A Teddy Kennedy Quagmire!)

Take that, you Bush-Bashin' Hot-Air Bags From DailyKos! Just Impeach The
Bush/Cheney Team, and we are Left Hip-Deep, With San Francisco's Pelosi, & 7-Watt Bulb Sen. Harry Reid. Whew! reb

The Loop Garoo Kid said...

The Revolutionary Guard concerns me. No, I do not think they will defect. I think these guys are ideologues, drunk on power, and very well armed. The Red Guards may have had numbers but these guys have the best weapons Iran can buy.

I hate to say this but we have to fuigure out how to cut off the head of the snake. I hate to say it b/c it sounds like I advocate killing the mullahs. Somehow we have to neutralize them another way. No mullahs, no Revolutionary Guards.


Loop Garoo,

The "Head of The Snake" is the Ayatollah's High Command. Nuking the Tehran HQ, leaves the weapons production facilities in place. Not a comfortable position.

>IF The Russians have already sold
them Lethal Eggs (I don't believe Vladimir is that naive) it's already the beginning of WWIII. If
France (or Pakistan) does it, it's
really later than we think. But No, Pakistan is Sunni. Jacques Chirac is gone now, and that bonehead was callous enough to swap Oil for Nukes.

Facts: They are getting closer.
They are Rabidly Insane! No doubt on that score.

>How Good Is Our Intel Now? I suppose that's the serious question mark.

We've gotta have Faith, brother!
>>>Scary world, wot? reb


__________________________ __________________________

Ernesto Ribeiro said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Thanks Ernesto R, but,

This Website is Not About Me, and...

Although I am in sympathy with most
of your views, ie Saudi Arabia,
CAIR, and the ACLU on many issues,

Your Inappropriate Language, plus one other thing forced the deletion. I will reflect on our Leadership Only After This Administration's Term Is Up; so, I choose to delay a final analysis or harsh judgement at this time.

We Are At War! Never give up on Uncle Sam!
(I tried your website. Sorry, but
I don't speak Spanish, but I do love Chili Rellenos & Chili Verde con Carne!) Try us again, please.

The Loop Garoo Kid said...

reb et al.

For an interesting take on what is occurring on the ground in Iraq, go to:

This is an OP-Ed piece that appeared in last Sunday's New York Times and is written by 7 servicemen currently serving in Iraq.


The Loop Garoo Kid said...

I am pleased to report that Haleh Esfandiari, an Iranian-American scholar, head of the Middle East Program at the Woodrow Wilson Interenational Center for Scholars, has been released from the notorious Evin Prison in Tehran where she has been held incommunicado and in solitary confinement since May on bogus charges that she was fomenting a velvet revolution against the Iranian regime.

Ms Efandiari went to Tehran in December to visit her aging 93 year old mother. On December 30, the taxi taking Ms. Efandiari to the airport where she intended to catch a flight back to the U.S. was stopped by three knife wielding men who took Ms. Efandiari's luggage and hand bag which contained her Iranian and American passports.

Ms. Efandiari's mother posted a property bond in the form of the deed of her house, ergo, Ms. Efandiari's statements regarding how well she was treated by her captors as a forfeiture of the bond would result in her mother losing her home.

In the event, you did not already consider the Iranian regime the epitome of evil, consider its victimization of scholars and nonegenarian women.

We can hope that Ms. Efandiari will soon be returned her passports allowing her to return to the United States.



Yes, we saw Ms Esfandiari, age 67, release yesterday. Support from universities around the world forced the Mullahs to release her unharmed. reb

Yankee Doodle said...

I'm back!

I clicked some of your new links, and I've added to the Yankee Commentary.