Tuesday, February 17, 2009

Now They Call Me Infidel

By Jamie Glazov

Frontpage Interview’s guest today is Nonie Darwish, author and founder of ArabsForIsrael.com. She grew up in Cairo and Gaza, the daughter of a high-ranking Egyptian army officer. She now lectures around the country to civic organizations, universities, churches, and synagogues. She is the author of the new book, Now They Call Me Infidel: Why I Renounced Jihad for America, Israel, and the War on Terror.

FP: Nonie Darwish, welcome to Frontpage Interview.

Darwish: My pleasure.

FP: Tell us some of the things you were taught as a child in the Arab Middle East.

Darwish: I was born and raised as a Muslim in Cairo, Egypt and the Gaza Strip. I attended Gaza elementary schools where I learned hatred, vengeance and retaliation. Peace was never as an option; it was considered a sign of defeat and weakness. Those who wanted peace and compromise were called traitors. Jews were described as monsters, apes and pigs and the enemies of God from the pulpits of mosques. When I asked: “why do we hate Jews?” The answer was: “aren’t you a Muslim?”

Shaming is very strong in Arab upbringing. We were told outrageous lies about Jews: "Don't take candy from strangers since it could be a Jew trying to poison you." We were also told that Israeli soldiers would kill pregnant Arab women just for fun, place bets on whether she was carrying a boy or a girl, and cut her open to see who won the bet.

My classmates would cry while reciting Jihadist poetry daily, wishing to die as martyrs. The teachers filled our hearts with fear of Jews, which made hatred come easy and terrorism tolerated. The propaganda of jihad, hatred and anti-Semitism was everywhere and not just in schools; it was in mosques, newspapers, movies, by politicians, in the arts and in many Jihadist songs over the radio. Mosque prayers often ended with cursing of the infidels (non-Muslims). Believe it or not, if you grow up with prayers like that, it can sound and feel normal.

FP: Who was your father and what were the circumstances of his death? How did this affect your family?

Darwish: My father was Colonel Mustafa Hafez and he headed the Egyptian military intelligence in the Gaza Strip and the Sinai in the 50s. The Egyptian President at that time was Gamal Abdel Nasser, who was committed to unifying the Arab world, destroying Israel and standing against Western interests in the region. Under orders from Nasser, my father started the Fedayeen, which means “armed resistance”, a guerrilla-style operation against Israel. They made cross-border attacks into Israel and caused a great deal of death, damage and destruction.

There were several assassination attempts on my father by Israel. My father wanted to leave his post as a result but this was delayed because Nasser needed to find a replacement. In response to the terror, one night Israel sent its commandos to our heavily guarded home in Gaza City, but my father was not home. All the Israeli soldiers found were us, women and children. The Israeli soldiers left us unharmed. I was grateful they did not kill us; especially since the Fedayeen did kill Israeli civilians. The next morning the security personnel around were taken for interrogation by the Egyptian government to find out who was the traitor. My favorite guard who always played with us was killed during the interrogation.

After two years of intense Fedayeen operations, my father was killed in the first targeted assassination in Gaza in July of 1956. I was 8 years old and had four siblings. My father was extremely loved and respected by many and until today his name is on a street and school in Gaza city and in a street in Alexandria. In Nasser's famous speech to nationalize the Suez Canal, he hailed my father as a national hero, a Shahid. President Nasser vowed that all of Egypt would take revenge and made no mention of the heavy toll of death and destruction brought upon Israel by the Fedayeen. My siblings and I were asked by top government officials: "which one of you will avenge your father's blood by killing Jews?" We all looked at each other, speechless; none of us wanted to kill anyone or be burdened by such a question.

FP: You show how polygamy is a religiously sanctioned structure in the Islamic world. Tell us how you witnessed its affect on women and on the rest of society.

Darwish: Polygamy is allowed under Sharia Islamic family law. The Muslim marriage contract allows a man to marry up to 4 wives and thus loyalty to one woman is not required. Men do not even have to exercise that right to additional wives for the damage to be done. By allowing men to be “loyal” to up to four wives, the stage is set for women to distrust their husbands, especially in times of trouble. Nor can they trust women friends who can be eligible to marry their husbands.

The basic loyalty bond between husband and wife is the basis of all loyalties in the family. In polygamy this basic bond shifts from husband/wife to wife and her father or male blood relatives and later to a woman’s first born son. A woman’s father or son becomes her protector and defender in time of trouble in the marriage or when the husband marries another woman.

Many Muslim apologists say that Muslim women have more rights than Western women because they keep their own wealth separate from the husband's. But they refuse to say why. The reason a Muslim woman keeps her wealth is because her father will never allow her inheritance to go to a Western style community property where it could be shared with a second, third or even a fourth wife and their children.

Even though most Muslim men do not practice polygamy, many others do. Because polygamy is allowed and sanctioned by Allah, it changes the dynamic of the wife/husband relationship and family loyalties. A Muslim woman does not change her name after marriage, but often goes by her first son’s name; for example “Um Muhammed” or “Um Ali” - that is mother of Muhammed or mother of Ali. It becomes a Muslim woman's identity and source of pride.

Even in Arab folklore and stories such as Tales from the Thousand and One Night, it reflects the impossible life of the main character Shahrazad who was one of a Harem struggling to survive by telling tales to the polygamous Arab kind. Listening to these stories taught us the art of manipulation to survive among competing women and one king.

That injustice to women is further complicated with an easy divorce existing only in the hands of the man. Women do not have the same right to divorce but can only ask the husband for it -- but if he refuses she has to go to court for years to get it. Sharia law also allows husbands to beat their wives who are not obedient. Just imagine that: a husband can have a second wife and not give his wife a divorce and if she disobeys, he can beat her. All of that is legal under Sharia Islamic law. Such laws turn the relationship between husband and wife from that of partners to one of slave and master. The victims in all of this are also the kids who are brought up by an oppressed mother who constantly need their support and approval against the father if he gets himself another wife. The children will have a lot of competition over the attention of the father who has several wives and several sets of kids.

I believe that even Muslim men are harmed by their right to polygamy which deprives them from a secure loving one man/one woman commitment. Because of polygamy and other sexual restrictions in Muslim society, poorer men have a hard time finding wives who sometimes prefer to be the second, third or fourth wife of a wealthier man. The end result is a large population of sexually deprived unmarried young Muslim men, angry and ready to listen to the calls of jihad in their mosques. Jihad and martyrdom thus become the only guarantee for heaven where 72 virgins will greet them with open arms. In this divine promise from God, polygamy still exists in heaven – and to the disadvantage of the Muslim woman.

FP: You make the point that Islamic terror has its roots in the rage that exists within the Muslim family. Can you talk about that a bit?

Darwish: Every Muslim family that lives in a majority Muslim country lives under Family Sharia (Islamic) Law. Sharia Law is divided into Criminal and Civil and Family Law. Criminal Sharia Law is not practiced in all Muslim countries and the reason is because it is simply cruel and unusual punishment; it includes amputation of limbs, flogging, beheading and stoning to death

Family Sharia law is practiced in all Muslim countries and some Muslims in the West are demanding it. Family Sharia law gives most rights to men and very little rights to women. For example, Muslim men can marry up to 4 wives and even have the right to engage in sexual relations under the concept of “ma malakat aymanahum” -- which means owned women slaves. Slavery has been abolished officially in Muslim countries, but a man’s sexual right to “owned women” is still wide-open for reinterpretation.

In Saudi Arabia and many other Muslim countries, for example, maids are systematically raped since some men interpret their position in the family as a sort of slavery. The Muslim marriage contract is different from the Judeo/Christian marriage contract. In a Muslim wedding, the man does not vow loyalty to only one wife. Even if the man never exercises the polygamy right, the damage to the marital relationship has already been done. In the back of the mind of every Muslim woman in time of trouble is the reality that her husband can choose to solve the problem by having a second wife instead of going to marriage counselling.

I have heard Muslim women in the Middle East beg their husbands during an argument: “You can have a girlfriend if you want, but please do not marry on me for the sake of the kids.” In the West, the source of all loyalties in a family originates with the husband/wife loyalty and trust relationship where the man vows to be faithful and true to his one and only wife -- till death do us part. Such a vow by a husband adds stability and trust in the marriage. That gives wives equality, dignity and protection; not only for them but also for their children. Because of polygamy rights to the Muslim man, Muslim women have developed a need to protect themselves; thus you see no community property in the Muslim family unit. Muslim scholars often claim that Muslim women have more rights than Western women because they have the right to keep their property separate from that of their husbands; that is true, but they don’t tell you why.

The right in question has developed so as to protect a wife’s property inherited from her family from going to the second, third or fourth wife. Polygamy thus totally changes the dynamics of the relationship between husband and wife or wives. The loyalty unit is no longer husband/wife, but wife and male members of her own family and later wife and her first born son who will protect her interests if the husband gets another wife. In the Arab world, women do not take their husband’s name but keep their family name and often go by their first son’s name. Thus you see Arab women proudly call themselves “Um Ali” or “Um Muhammad” -- meaning mother of Ali or mother of Muhammad.

Polygamy rights are often complicated by other oppressive laws to women. For example, divorce is in the hands of the man only; a woman can only ask her husband for divorce, but he can refuse so she has no alternative but to spend years in court where her testimony is half valid than a man’s. Divorce is not only in the hands of the man, but it is also the easiest divorce in the world; all the man can do to have a divorce is bring any witness and say “I divorce you” three times; that’s it and the wife is divorced.

This injustice to the Muslim woman is compounded by the right of a Muslim man to beat his wife if she is disobedient. Think about it; a Muslim woman can legally turn into one of several wives, beaten if the man perceives her actions as disobedient and cannot even divorce the husband unless she goes through years of divorce court.

There are many other injustices for women which add insult to injury; a woman’s testimony in court is half valid to a man and she only gets half the inheritance of her male brothers. What complicates all of that to the Muslim woman, and even man, is that a Muslim man’s honor is directly linked to the sexual purity of his female relatives. Thus you see the Muslim man burdened by monitoring the behavior and chastity of his females. Many Muslim men are always eager to cover up their women whose bodies are considered great temptation that must be covered. Thus the family honor is linked to women’s bodies; a value which often ends in tragedies such as the honor killing of girls.

Of course not all Muslim women are abused or a part of a harem. There are many powerful and educated Muslim women whose husbands do not choose to marry a second wife. However they are not the majority and in time of trouble even the most powerful Muslim woman in Sharia courts will often lose to her husband simply because she has very few rights. Because of the inferior position of the Muslim woman and because of depriving the Muslim man from the security and stability of a one man/one woman marriage contract the scene is set for a lot of turmoil, anger and manipulative behavior for self-protection between the spouses.

How can an oppressed woman bring up happy and healthy children? Even sons? Character is dependent on an oppressed woman in the first years of life. That is the dilemma of the Muslim family. Polygamy rights do not only hurt women, but they also negatively impact younger and poorer males in the Middle East from having wives. Some Muslim women often choose to be an additional wife to a wealthy man than the first wife of a poorer man. The Middle East has a large number of unmarried and sexually frustrated young men who are ready for jihad and the 72 virgins awaiting them in heaven. That is what they hear in mosques every Friday.

FP: You describe how Arabs see a virtue in never admitting a mistake. To say the least, this kind of psychology necessitates pathology and the failure of a culture. No? Tell us about this mindset and its effects.

Darwish: The Arab culture is famous for its concept of pride. Image is very important and pride and shame are great motivators. Protecting the image of Muslims in front of the non-Muslim West is vital. Thus elaborate behavior is done to saving face. Admitting to a mistake can bring terrible shame and is not regarded as a virtue; those who admit to mistakes are not rewarded for their honesty but ridiculed and shamed or even severely punished. Until today most Muslims blame 9/11 on a Jewish conspiracy. The father of Muhammad Attah in Egypt, for 4 years denied that his son headed the 9/11 terror attack even when the whole world saw him checking into the airplane that slammed into the twin towers. Only recently Atta's father come out and admitted he is proud of what his son “the Shahid” and not the terrorist has done.

There are people in Arab jails right now who are accused of defaming Islam or their country in front of non-Muslims. This defamation can be a simple praise of Christians or Jews and of being critical of radical Islam. Fear of being accused of defaming one’s tribe, nation or religion leads to a culture that tends to blame others rather than look within. The Judeo Christian culture concentrates heavily on the concept of “we are all sinners and only through the grace of God we can be saved.” That is a big relief to the Western psyche. Muslim education views members of other religions as sinners; the infidel non-Muslim sinners can only be saved by announcing they are Muslims. It is a prominent part of the Jewish faith to talk about God’s punishment when they are disobedient to God’s laws.

That honest admission by Jews is not viewed by Muslims as a virtue and a step towards self-improvement, but as an admission of wrong doing and that Jews are bad and deserve God’s wrath; that is why to many Muslims Jews do not deserve land or a nation. “They themselves even admit that they are sinners,” I once heard a Muslim say. There is also a concept in Islam called “taqueya” which allows lying to non-Muslims if it is in the best interest of Islam. That concept is very deep in Muslim culture that we don't even think of the term “taqueya” any more; it has simply penetrated every aspect of Muslim life. Because of it there is very little self-criticism.

Thus, saying sorry, admitting guilt or looking within for solutions is not a strong value; it will surely get a person in deep trouble instead. Such a person will bear the blunt of the blame for everything -- even for what he did not do; thus you have Muslim denials and defensiveness over matters that many in the West cannot comprehend. Muslims are in denial when they say that Muslim women have more rights than Western women; even many Muslim women convinced themselves with that and defend Sharia Law rather than say the truth in front of the non-Muslim West.

Muslims are in denial when they say Israel is behind all Muslim terrorism across the globe, even 9/11; they are in denial when they say that Arab tyrants are the product of American foreign policy, but when America takes out Saddam, they say “you are interfering in our internal affairs.” That is why many Muslims say one thing to the West in English and the opposite to Arabs in Arabic.

Shaming is prominent in the Arab child. To avoid the intense pain of shaming, denying responsibility turns into a virtue to save face and protect one's pride. The concept of “taqueya” is one of the reasons many Muslims were silent after 9/11. Only a few were speaking out honestly and openly by admitting there is a problem in Muslim culture that needs to be examined and corrected. The few Arab Americans who did that where not rewarded for their honesty by their Muslim community; instead they were condemned, shunned and shamed by the majority of Muslims. They are doing everything they can to silence us. They do not want to get into Western style dialogue with us or debate us in the open.

We rarely see Muslim vs. Muslim debate and that is why when the brave Arab American Dr. Wafaa Sultan, debated a Muslim cleric on Al Jazeera TV, it became international news. The thank you she got for her honesty by powerful radical Muslims was a Fatwa -- a death warrant. This explains and exposes the deep cultural need to even lie for self-preservation and protection. They don’t want an honest debate for reform from within; but they want to continue the lies to save face.

Very simply, Islamists do not want to admit to the world their jihadist agenda and their sympathy with terrorists. That is why they simply want to silence the opposition; a Danish cartoonist; the Pope; a Dutch film maker or politicians and the few Muslims and Arabs who dare to speak out.

Our crime is being honest and open about our culture, radical Islam and our wish for reformation. Even after leaving the Middle East and becoming US citizens we still carry the baggage of never admitting to a mistake and always blaming others such as the West or Israel for all internal problems of the Arab world.

This charade of denials and games has done nothing but keep the Muslim world in a permanent state of stagnation, turmoil and poverty despite of the wealth from oil.

FP: Your chapter about how you came to America very much touched my heart. As a young boy who came from the Soviet Union to New York, I found very much in common with how much you loved America. Till this day, several decades later, I remain intoxicated with the littlest things about America. I love America -- like you also do. Can you just share briefly a story or two about your first romance with America when you first got here?

Darwish: Many Americans who came from your or my background never let a day go by without remembering where we were and where we are now. I too remain intoxicated with the littlest of things about America. There was a Russian comedian who praised America for choice; he did that in a comedy setting, but the best jokes are the ones based on truth.

The first thing that an immigrant sees in America is the range of choices; in style of life, religion or affiliations. Respect for diversity, minorities and equality under the law is especially noticeable if you come from a culture that treats women and religious minorities as second class citizens under Sharia Law.

What is most noticeable to a new comer to America is not just a good paying job, but the virtues of many aspects of American culture. The “thank you” or “may I help you” with a smile in the stores and markets of America; the “good morning”, “hello” and a smile to a perfect stranger on the street; the self-sufficiency and pride in physical labor; the openness, honesty and decency of the American people.

No, not all cultures are equal; there are some that make it easier to be human.

FP: You discuss a crucial issue in how you noticed the hate being taught in the mosques when you got here. You also noticed the bizarre phenomenon of Muslims who hate America come to America to live, who live against American values and seek to destroy America through the liberty that America provides. Can you talk about this a bit?

Darwish: I moved to America in 1978 and was glad to leave the culture of jihad, dictatorships and police states behind. I was looking forward to be part of America. But when I went to the local mosque, we were told not to assimilate in America; show your pride in Islam by being noticed as Muslims in America. Women were encouraged to wear Islamic clothes with pride even if Egyptians like myself have never covered their heads or wore Islamic clothes in Egypt.

To my surprise, I started seeing Egyptians and other Arabs getting radicalized right here in US mosques. We were told that Saudi Arabia is building all these mosques, sending their clerics from the most radical Muslim backgrounds and even send the Friday sermons to such preachers directly from Saudi Arabia. When I asked why are we building more mosques than the need of the American Muslim community, I was told we are here to fill them with Americans; to bring Islam to America and change America’s constitution to the Qur’an. I heard some say “congratulations, Europe is now dominated by Muslims; may God bless America with Islam too.”

When Louis Farrakhan was making anti-Semitic and anti-American comments, I heard some Arab Americans who attend mosques regularly, say “Farrakhan is useful for the Arab cause.” Some of the moderate Muslims that I knew started to gradually behave and act more radical. They only befriended other Muslims and criticized me for befriending and marrying an American. They rejected me when I refused to cover my head; something I have never done before. Even my mother and grandmother never covered their heads or wore Islamic clothes all their lives in Egypt. Some even called Americans stupid or naïve for being such an open society. I then started seeing Muslim students becoming extremely active on college campuses while wearing their Islamic clothes with pride. I stared noticing a drift between Muslims and the rest of America, and an attitude of “us against them.”

There seemed to be an attempt to push the envelope further and further every day by some new demand or complaint by radical Muslims in America. Some advocated taking advantage of loop holes in America’s open system and to further Muslim power. Some radical Muslims and shady characters started coming to America and I often wondered why they were here. Why would they choose to live in a country they consider the “great Satan”? Why would they subject their children to the temptations of the West? It became clear to me that America was being flooded by radical Muslim clerics with a political rather than a religious agenda.

One shady character was Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman from Egypt. This man caused so much problems in Egypt and was a suspect in the assassination of President Anwar El Sadat. He fled Egypt to Sudan to cause more turmoil and trouble. From the Sudan he was able to get a visa from the American Embassy in Sudan. He came to the USA to preach in a New Jersey mosque.

Such preachers are often regarded as a joke and as extreme even by moderate Muslims in Egypt only to find themselves with new respectable status and freedoms they could only dream of under Muslim dictatorships. Such Muslim radical preachers should never have been allowed in America. But believe it or not they have discovered that only in America can they work the system to their advantage to demand this and that and if anyone criticizes them they learn the good old buzz words in America: racist, bigot and Islamophobia -- the choice words they learned quickly from some Muslim American organizations who claim to be moderate. These are expressions represent realities that are a way of life in the old country where racism, bigotry and anti-Semitism are the norm. In America these individuals are finally free to spread their hatred, rage and subversion and cause a rift between Muslims and the rest of America.

FP: Nonie Darwish, thank you kindly for joining us. And thank you for your courage to tell the truth.

Darwish: Thank you and Frontpagemag for giving me the opportunity.

Links worth your time


The Wisest Mind Has Something Yet To Learn!



Note: Asian Historian Kallie Sczcepanski says that Saudi King Abdullah has had 30 wives, that produced 35 children. reb


To Our Vocal European & Homegrown Critics...of American Policies since 9/11, I will urge them to read a brief article by Dr. Victor Davis Hanson entitled "War and the Falicies of Our Critics" featured on FRONTPAGEMAG, and hosted by Bernard Chapin, 8/21/07.


Anonymous said...

Winston Churchill:

"An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile in the hope of being eaten last."



I often reflect on how few of my
relatives and friends, are inclined to make even an anonymous comment here, especially after the two brave posts by the foreign-born Egyptian author, Nonie Darwish.

With the new Obama administration in place, are we now poised for an assault on our battle-won 1st & 2nd Amendment privilege? Is it just a lazy complacent attitude that leads us into abandoning our fundamental principles; and are there enough of us left that are willing to defend the greatest nation in world history?

Perhaps we need a bit more WWII History in the High School classroom, to add some awareness.

See, July 4th 2006 Post, by Raymond S. Kraft (tap Archives). It could be printed, and delivered to your kid's HS history teacher, and the School Principal. What say you? reb


Another Great American Woman...Sandra Magnus. She's an Astronaut, and a Space-blogger!

Can You Top That One? reb


Nonie Darwish, one of the truly great Egyptian women of the 21st Century. I wish my friend Mohamed Fadly knew her, developed a solid rapport, just to chat in a relaxed civil atmosphere, without any interruption. I would just sit... and listen!


>> It's here, that I would like to answer Mohamed's sincere questions...especially about "Zionist Terrorism" Vs 'Muslim Terrorism'.

Will Mohamed accept? reb


To: My Friend, Mohamed

* I've attempted to caution you, with warnings and predictions

* The people at PP will Monitor You

* They will Revile

* WhyNot, Valerie, S***Stirrer & Stiletto all use the SAME Dirty Words, all LOVE to interrupt Civil Discussion; they are All prone to filthy words, and they will All spew cruel names like xenophobic, war-monger, racist-pig, Fascist, etc. etc.


Now, please allow me to continue:

Fact: UGLY WAR, to be a war must have opposing sides, with differing politics and/or alternative religions to keep the ordinary people fired-up and emotionally involved. True?

WAR, is a Monsterous Thing, and both sides have their radical terrorists willing to risk death. True?

My Friend Mohamed Points Only to the "terrorism" of One Side...So, I am Forced to give the Other Side:

1) "Zionist Terror"... Since these people are only a minority Six Million People, they will ALWAYS Be In A 'Defensive, Survival Mode'.

2) 'Muslim Terror'...because they number in the Hundreds of Millions in the Middle East, and they teach Jew-Hatred in their Madrassa Schools, and Daily In The Holy Mosques, they will Always Be "On The Offense" in full accordance with The High Prophet Mohammad's "Holy" Qur'an.

Defense Vs Offense. True?

Finger-Pointing The Blame, is an 'exercise in futility'. It IGNORES The Above REALITY.

That's my answer to..."Zionist Terror", but who will listen?

Your sad friend, reb

Anonymous said...

Too many crazy people in the MiddleEast are led into protest parades, shouting "Death to the Americans!"

If there ever were a catastrophic natural disaster in the central part of this country, a quarter of the people on the African Continent
would face starvation! American Agriculture produces 40 percent of the world's Corn & Wheat!

Think about it.

Steven, Central Illinois

Mohamed said...

Mr. reb,

My blog is open for everyone, for those who believe that Israelis are the oppressing side not the oppressed side, and open too for those who believe that Palestinians are just terrorists who want to kill all Israelis. I welcome different perspectives on my blog. I delete bad words keeping the opinion represented in the comment. It's better than moderating comments, my visitors will suspect me of only allowing comments that I agree with, whether they are right or not.

About you "answer" about Zionist terror.

That's not what I expected at all. After asking you 4 times about it, I didn't expect such answer.

You stated on my blog;
Is That Your 'Israeli Terror List'? Well, there's a much longer list, beginning in 1972, in Munich.
Well, when this list started in 1972, then I'm talking about a Zionist terror list that started in 1938. Would you keep calling it as "defensive"?

I didn't realize what did you exactly mean by "Defensive"!!
You can re-read my post "History vs Claims". You can find bombing trains, bombing markets, bombing hotels, bombing cinema, direct firing against villagers, etc. I'm puzzled!! Do you consider this as "Defensive position"?!!
I don't understand how bombing a market or a train where there are tens of civilians is "Defensive"!!

Mr. reb,
Please read the following words very carefully. I'll try to make them very sincere.

Truth is clear, the side who started the conflict by occupying and terrorizing the other side is very obvious, the other side who decided to fight against those who killed its children, fathers and friends is obvious too. If you want to deny this, or found it very hard to admit the truth then it's your freedom. I won't force you to believe that killing a Palestinian child, raping a woman or bombing an Arab market is terrorism, neither I will ever try to force you to disbelieve that killing an Israeli is the ultimate terrorism. It's your own freedom, your own beliefs.
But I ask you just one thing if you really consider me as friend; don't call a Palestinian resisting those who occupied his land as a terrorist, when you call an Israeli bombing a market or killing 500 child in 22 days as "Defensive". I would be very grateful to you.

I hope the message is delivered.




Your comment ends with "I hope the message is delivered."

Of course, I believe that you are a sincere person, so all of your messages will always be printed here.
I am mystified that you continue to permit slanderous people with a dirty nickname, from a filthy one-sided Post, to continue to contaminate your Islam Post... to "revile", and to ridicule others, calling them "war-mongering fascist imperialist pigs, zenophobic-racist & "brain-dead", etc, etc
When I admitted not knowing very much about your regional history, I deferred to Loop Garoo. Do you remember that? Since your focus is always primarily on Palestine and Gaza, I've searched for good authors. Nonie Darwish is one of the best, because she is Egyptian, and her father was an assassinated general, she was raised in GAZA, and really knows the Muslim Culture. (Mohamed's territory).

You choose to Ignore her Post. Is it because she is a woman? Is it too painful that she speaks boldly
about suicidal bombs, stoning of little girls, "honor-killing by parents" without legal retribution?
Or about Polygamy? Is the truth too painful, or embarrassing?

I have published four or five posts that deal with the ugly side of Sharia Law, expecting a good response from a law student. I've waited patiently for months. Dead silence...nothing!

Six Million Humans = Defense

Hundreds of Millions of Radicals trained to Hate Jews, Always on the OFFENSE, always belligerant, uncompromising, spurred on by Maqmoud Ahmadinejad's "wipe 'em off the map" posturing; a smiling Ali Khameini silently behind him.
I have the dates of the Embassy Attacks, of the suicide bombings, the beheadings, and Sky-jackings, of the Munich slaughter, of Madrid RR Station, of London, Mumbai India, and the 2973 dead Americans at the Twin Towers in New York City.

Mohamed speaks only of Palestine, and innocent dead little girls. Do you want a Clean War?

I want the world to hear both sides of ugly, nasty, vicious war.
Stupid citizens of the U.S.A. > > > Go back to sleep, America.

Obama seems committed to winning in Pakistan & Afganistan, and your kids can go back to their Rap-Crap Music, and Bong-Pipes, and Spring-Break.



- Greybeard Albert & Mr Reb combine to make the following comment:
After a careful reading of Four Posts

* The Left, and a Woman's Servered Head

* Beheadings & Honor Killings

* Roots of the Gaza Conflict

* Now They Call Me Infidel

by Phyllis Chesler & Nonie Darwish, we believe that Women Everywhere Must Unite In Massive Protests, announcing to the world that they have had Enough of this Insane Humiliation, and Demand A Week For All Muslim Men To Wear The Black Burkha To Hide Their Shame!

- gba & reb -





Mohamed said...

Mr. reb,

I'm shocked. Do you consider that there are Hundreds of Millions of Radicals trained to Hate Jews? Are you talking about Muslims? Muslims are all 1.5 Millards, do you think that half, 3 quarters, or ALL of them are just radicals?!!

Mr. reb,
Do you know what is the biggest sin of radicals? It's the "Generalizing". They will believe that all the other side have the same bad beliefs. Did you fall in this sin?

If you want to talk about both sides, if you want me to condemn the "terrorist" acts of both sides, then I'll give you that. Truth is truth, terrorism is terrorism, whether the doer is Arab or Jew.

Yes, I condemn targeting an Israeli school bus with little students going to their school to learn how to live in love and peace with Palestinians, targeting these students is a terrorist act. The same I'll condemn a former Israeli prime minister killing villagers going back from their farms, or killing little boys by firing them, or raping little innocent women.

Would you give me the same? Would you dare to describe Kafr Qassim, Deir Yassin, 1st Qana, 2nd Qana, Balad al-Shaykh, Khan Yunis massacres, bombing Palestinian trains and hotels and Holocaust against Gaza as described by Barak, Defense minister, would you describe these as "TERRORISM", the same as you describe firing a local-made Palestinian rocket or bombing an Israeli bus as terrorism?

I'm waiting..


Mohamed, thank you so much!

Now, we are finally talking about 'Terrorism' coming from both sides. I am quite pleased.

That's the reality of ugly wars. There are unnecessary innocent victims on both sides!

Now, if you would read "Now They Call Me Infidel" and Comment on the contents of That Post, I would be thrilled with any answer that you provide.

Your friend, reb

Anonymous said...

It's Greybeard again.

Mohamed believes that you think he's a terrorist. It's not true. We both believe he is a fine, intelligent young law student. He tends to lecture you on Palestinian
war casualities, with "no milk for Palestinian babies", and blown off legs, etc because he is much closer to that action now than we are.

He knows that Jews are just people, and that they are not monkeys or pigs. He knows that is just war propaganda.

I hope this friendship does not dissolve into nothing. This is the only place I know that shows both sides of war-time conditions.

- gba -


Mohamed said...

Mr. reb,

What I said is nothing new in my beliefs. According to my regional and religious culture that's how I and my people believe. Maybe your Media want to brainwash you and convince you that All Muslims are haters of Jews, so you will support the 6 Million "weak" Jews, who live in continuous threat of the hundreds of Millions of those who hate them, taught by their Holy texts to hate and kill the "infidel" Jews. Is that how you believe? Is that how your Media keep assuring?

A little example of my Islamic culture, that you believe that it teaches us to "hate" Jews, may change your mind if you're ready for a change.
Our great prophet Muhammad had a Jew neighbor, this Jew was misbehaving with the prophet, when this Jew was ill the prophet visited him in his house.
Another example years after the prophet was dead. When Muslims entered Spain where there were Jews, they gave them Dhimmi rights according to Sharia law, this allowed Jews to be famous scientists, poems, musicians, philosophers, traders, doctors (even the caliphate had a Jew doctor). The caliphate established a center for Hebrew language.

If Sharia is a Jew-hatred culture as you say, Muslims would never do such things.


Mr. reb, You said Now, we are finally talking about 'Terrorism' coming from both sides.
That's a great thing. Now you believe that what Zionists committed like massacres against Palestinians, bombing trains and markets, and firing tens of innocent villagers, and raping girls is described as 'Terrorism'. That's me who should thank you that you finally saw the truth, and that Israelis aren't the absolute innocents as they claim. Thanks very much.

Now I'm very interested to ask you. When the Zionist 'Terrorism' started early since 1938, before the Palestinian 'Terrorism'. Bombing trains, bombing markets, firing villagers, raping Palestinian women, etc. How would you describe the Palestinian react against this 'Terrorism' that started first? I mean when both sides are committing 'Terrorism', would the fact that Israeli side started this circle of 'Terrorism' change anything in your perspective?!!

I'm looking forward to knowing how your answer would be.

Your friend,

Mohamed said...


Thanks for your kind words, but no, I don't think that Mr. reb thinks that I'm a terrorist. I know he thinks I'm a peaceful Muslims, but the problem is that he thinks there are hundreds of Millions of radicals in Muslim countries who hate Jews!!

That's a horrible corrupted image that is far away from the truth.

Mohamed said...

Mr. reb and Greybeard,

I read your suggestion to make Muslim men wear Burka. :P

That's a nice suggestion. But I think it will be achieved only when American men wear skirts, bikinis and chemise.

Would you?



a) The Burkha. I believe that wherever it's practiced, placing women and girls in a head-to-toe black bag keeps your females in permanent, 2nd class status.

That's Shameful.

b) Would you? Wear a burkha, No.
Wear a skirt? No. Effeminate men are dispersed in all cultures; they are Mother-Nature's Anomaly;
different, not easily classified.
Do I hate them? No.

c) Are all muslims Terrorists. No, maybe 10 percent, but it's difficult to accurately assign a number. When The Gr Ayatollah Khomeini grabbed the U.S. Embassy on Nov 4, 1979, and Jimmy Carter did nothing, perhaps it tripled to 30 percent??

When Osama bin Laden murdered 2973
innocent workers in one hour on 9/11/2001, maybe it jumped to 50 or 60 percent; Who can say?

d) Hating The Jews. The only people that benefit from this... are in the political or religious Leadership Positions. The Oil Money Gushes, from Saudi Arabia & Tehran, giving Power to people like Maqmoud Ahmadinejad, or to a Tribal Chief in Wasiristan!

They can send a suicidal team to Madrid, London, Mumbai or to NYC or Detroit or Dearborne, Michigan, U.S.A. at any moment they choose to do it! A Nuclear WWIII becomes probable now. That's The Real Terrorism that most humans choose to ignore.

e) To imagine that terrorism began in 1938, or 1948 stretches credibility. There was terrorism before the sword & shield, before the long-bow and spear, and before the caveman's obsidian knife. (Sigh)


Now, would Mohamed Fadly please grant us at least one paragraph on Each of Nonie Darwich's Posts?

1) Now They Call Me Infidel
2) Roots of the Gaza Conflict

Thank you. reb

Mohamed said...

Mr. reb,

What are you talking about?
Sword, shield, knife, bow, spear!!
These things had no thing to do with our discussion, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. All these weapons were extinct when the conflict started. I don't understand why you mentioned them. We're talking about the conflict between Palestinians and Israelis, that started by Zionist occupation of Palestinian lands, massacres against this unarmed people that is called as "Palestinians".

Mr. reb,
According to my humble knowledge I know that who starts a conflict is the "Offender", the one who performs the retaliation is the "Defender". In my knowledge Zionists started it by massacres against unarmed Palestinians on this land against this people, and specifically against this people, no other parties were involved. These things started in 1938, maybe earlier.

Mr. reb,
I was invited by your friend, Albert to come here. He told me that you're ready to answer my questions about Zionist terrorism. That's why I came here. I came with an intention to make a real discussion, to ask questions looking forward to answers.

I'll assume you didn't understand what I specifically want as an answer, so I'll re-ask my questions trying to make them clearer.

We agree for now that Zionists(Israelis) committed terrorist and bloody massacres against unarmed Palestinians, it started years before a Palestinian hold a stone and threw it against an Israeli, years before a Palestinian decided to hold a gun and fight against the new comers.
So, if we agree too that attacking a bus where are little kids is classified as 'Terrorism', whether the attacker is a Palestinian or an Israeli, whether the victim is a Palestinian child or an Israeli child.
So, do you agree that the fact that it's Zionists(Israelis) started the conflict by killing hundreds of unarmed civil Palestinians, destroying hundreds of Palestinians homes, bulldozing many farms and terrorizing many villagers to leave their homes. Would you keep describe Palestinians as 'Terrorists'? I mean; can we make both the one who started the conflict that horrible way, and the other side that was under attack the same? Are they equal?!!

I hope that you understand me now.

About the Nonie posts, I already read this post, about a month ago, I don't remember. I copied it in a Word file, highlighted some points to discuss. I want to talk about polygamy and other points. I'll just wait until we finish our discussion about Zionist terrorism.



Mohamed, Here Is Your Favorite Subject...Terrorism. It's older than Giza, and as old as the hills.

It may have existed even before Zoroastrianism, Judaism, or Islam;
before the Sword & Shield, or the Caveman's Obsidian Knife! I cannot precisely say when tribal terrorism began, nor can you.

Friend Mohamed insists that we limit the discussion to "Zionist Terror", but that does not address the early beginnings of Islam's Hatred of the Jews, does it?

Let's turn back the clock, when Islam was new to the world:

Qur'an 9:29 "Fight those who believe not in Allah until they pay the Jizya and feel themselves subdued" Q 9:5 "Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them". Q:47.4 "When you encounter the unbelievers, strike off their heads."

One of Islam's eminent 20th Century
scholars, Sheikh Maolana Maudidi was quite clear with this modern update when he said this:

"Islam wishes to destroy all states and governments anywhere on the face of the earth which are opposed to the ideology and program of Islam, regardless of the country or the nation that rules it"!

Or the C.A.I.R. Leader, Omar Ahmed,
"We are not in America to be equal to other religions, we are here to

One more: The Great Muhammad al-Bukhari, 810-870 A.D. or "Imam Bukhari" should be studied for more details on "Terrorism".

Now, an old snake-hunter would like to know this:

Question: What percentage of today's muslim population really believe, and are obedient, in the above quotes...is it a modest 10 percent, or is it 95 % ??? At the lower figure, that's a grim 100,000,000 terrorists world-wide.

Most Savoir-faire Europeans & Fair-minded Americans don't have a bloody clue. reb


Mohamed, do you see it now? The earliest Hatred of the Jews began,
NOT in 1938, not in 1948 with 'Zionism', but with the advent (a coming into being) of Islam's Qur'an in the 7th Century, A.D.

It's an old, true history that is revealed in "Roots of the Gaza Conflict"...again by Egyptian author, Nonie Darwish. reb

Mohamed said...

Mr. reb,

Do you hate or love Bin Laden when he's accused of killing 3000 American employees?!!

That's the nature of human to hate those who hurt those whom we love, friends, parents, sons, daughters and neighbors. We hate too those who hurt innocents even if we don't know them. You'll hate a person who beat a little child.

That's simply how we are.

So, when there is a history of massacres that started before 1938 in Palestine against innocents, don't you think it's a reasonable react to hate Israelis and Zionists who committed these horrible crimes?

As for me I hate Bin Laden if he kills innocents, and hate Ariel Sharon because he killed innocents.

What about you? Do you love Bin Laden who is supposed to be a killer of thousands, or a "state" that started by killing and terrorizing innocents to force them to leave their homes and the "new comers" will build their homes instead of these emptied homes?


Mohamed, please permit me to calmly explain...

There are 1.1 Billion Muslims now on this planet. I've often thought
that this great number, in one religious group could be a serious threat to world stability IF...

if only 10 percent were trained to absolute obedience, and excited by a charasmtic leader to kill All Infidels (non-believers) and funded by great wealth, THAT would be a real survival problem, for All non-muslims!

Ten percent of 1 Billion people would be 100,000,000 dangerous radicals, with weapons and bombs!

I believe the 5 billion non-muslims
face a Very Serious Problem, that

a) Must Be Confronted, and Soon!

b) Most cultures have a Survival Instinct, a natural thing.

c) Most cultures do not have a "death wish" built into their 'faith' or belief systems, of hoping to become admired martyrs, like Jihadi Suicide Bombers receiving 72 Virgins in Paradise. That's Super-Polygamy.

d) These are strange notions & beliefs that are foreign to any other culture on this earth, like "honor killings" by parents, etc
As for Usama bin Laden...I do not waste my energy Hating this Evil;

he is an Insane Killer, and he must be dealt with, because this
vermin cannot be "rehabilitated" or 'changed', he must be eliminated, for the 'Greater Good' of today's earth population. Can you understand this logic?
I really did not intend to insult a
friendly voice; sorry. reb



I do not wish to offend or insult you, far from it.

I have searched many hours at this computer for material that might impress you, soften your speech, or even alter a few of your more strident positions.

I'll try again, typing a few words from a text I found this evening from an Islamic scholar:

"I find in the Qur'an that God granted the Land of Israel to the Children of Israel, and ordered them to settle therein (Q, Sura5:21) and that before the Last Day He will bring the children of Israel to retake possession of their Land, gathering them from different countries and nations (Q, Sura 17:104)."
Consequently, as a Muslim who abides by the Qur'an, I believe that opposing the existance of the State of Israel means opposing a Devine decree." anon.

Now, what is Mohamed's view of these two Sura?

Your friend, reb

Mohamed said...

Yes, Mr. reb, I understand how you think about the eliminating of Bin Laden because he's an insane killer. But what I don't understand is; why Bin Laden should be eliminated, but Ariel Sharon was assigned as a prime minister?!!!

Don't this make you puzzled?

Both are killers. The first is supposed to commit the horrible crime of killing 3000 innocents, the second killed hundreds of innocents by firing them!!

I searched the web about Israeli prime ministers. I found amazing facts. Most of them were leaders or members in terrorist groups such Irgun and Lehi.
Menachem Begin, the founder of Irgun Zionist terrorist group that committed many massacres like Deir Yassin(360 killed), David Hotel bombing(91 killed). He's the 6th Israeli prime minister.
Yitzhak Shamir, a former leader of Lehi Zionist terrorist group that committed bombings of Arab and British camps in 1947, and Deir Yassin massacre. He's the 7th PM.

Aren't you puzzled like me?!!

Some kill hundreds to run and hide, others kill hundreds to be assigned the highest political positions. Can you imagine it? The prime ministers of Israel "state" are directly involved in crimes that I and you agree that they are classified as 'Terrorism'!!


That's a good question. When Muslims believe according to their Holy Qur'an that Jews are promised this land that is called "Palestine", so opposing the existance of the State of Israel means opposing a Devine decree.

That's right that Allah promised Jews to obtain this land. It was mentioned in this verse;
"O my people! Enter the holy land which Allah hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin." 5:21

But let me ask you. As a human, as a father if you promised your son to give him something, is it an absolute promise, or it depends on some conditions? I mean, if your son did bad things would you give him this "promised present" or you'll punish him but depriving him from this present?
Logically, you won't give him this "promised present", you'll deprive him.

That's exactly what happened with Jews. Allah promised them to be granted this land, but they did bad things. They killed God's messengers and prophets, they attempted to kill prophet Jesus, they disbelieved him, however Allah saved them from the oppression of the Pharaohs they disobeyed his orders, even when they tried to go to "the promised land" they killed those who were living on this land, they even killed children and raped women.
Mr. reb, I know you're not a believer in God or any religion, but logically do you think that God who created all humans on this earth will be pleased when children and innocents are killed, when women and crudely raped? Would he grant those who kill innocents?
That's true that God promised them to be granted this land, but this is not the way they'll be granted it. God's grants aren't obtained through killing innocents, destruction of innocents' property.

I hope you understand.

There is another thing. It's a statement that David Ben-Gurion said to Goldman;
"I don't understand your optimism. Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance."

Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them?

Anonymous said...

reb sez,

Mohamed, You ask if I am puzzled; of course I am puzzled! Whenever a strong advocate of One Religion points to...one or two things in a "holy book" as "proof", I can only sigh, and remain silent.

Do I believe in a Creator-God?

Well, I'd like to believe that there is an Omnipotent Wisdom somewhere with all of the complex answers, and I've searched for that
too. But all I see is Conflict & Wars...from the 'true believers'.

Religious Scholars are as varied as
any people on earth. They can sit for hours happily discussing the contradictions in the Bible & in the Qur'an. It takes a lifetime of study to do that!

I have a good friend in California,
a "Latter-Day Saint" (Mormon) that insists that I'll never reach his "Celestial Heaven" because I refuse to read the 'Book of Mormon', "Pearl of Great Price", and the 'Doctrines & Coventents'!
(Sigh) He says that I may be permitted in "Terrestreal Heaven"
because I have good intentions. Now, that's a comforting thought!
In the 20th Century, mainly because we have the World's Greatest Body of Written Laws,

this nation has accomplished more in science, medicine, industry, and novel inventions, in the 20th century, than all of Europe in 1000 years! Our First Amendment (Law) says:
"Congress shall make no law... respecting an establishment of (a) religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people to peacefully assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Does this protect against Man's Corruption? From Criminal Activity? From Political, Bribe-taking Thieves?

Absolutely Not! See "Axis of Idiots" Post, where this old Snake Hunter publishes powerful names, like Illinois Governor Rod Blogojevich!

I am not afraid to publish the truth, whenever I find it! reb

Mohamed said...

Mr. reb,

I'm talking about a different subject.

When I asked you if you're puzzled or not, I was talking about the bias against Muslims.

When a Muslim is involved in a crime he's the greatest devil, absolute evil and must be eliminated. Americans will fight against him and pay Milliards of dollars to eliminate them.

But when Israelis commit the same crimes they are granted the highest political positions, assigned as prime ministers and supported by America. Americans will pay Milliards of dollars to them (not to eliminate them) but supporting them by money and weapons.

Aren't you puzzled?


Actually, we ARE talking about the same subject, and No, I'm not puzzled at all.

The Jews have always been in the minority, and that being true, have never been a Global Threat.

All Cultures endure the criminal minds within, and they must be dealt with harshly, but I've never heard of a Jewish family that slices the daughter's throat to save 'family honor', that chops off heads & hands on their "holy day", or straps nail-bombs on their dim-witted son, and tells him he'll inherit 72 virgins just the other side of death; or a Jewish culture that sends thousands of militants out to other nations to recruit them into a Judaism Cult. Or has a king with 30 wives, and 35 children like the Saudi King Abdullah. Jews just don't do these things!

Islam actively promotes this weird behavior, and your Sharia Law defends it!

When 'moderate muslims' see these acts, and educated muslims look the other way, or attempt to justify these horrors, it is that odd rationale that mystifies tolerant people, and then they are

Really Puzzled!

If Yahweh, or Allah...blesses them with a functional brain, why in God's name, don't they summon up the courage to Get Mad As Hell, Scream from the roof-tops, and say...

"Something Is Terribly Wrong Here!

"It's Past The Time That We Muslims Admit Our Faults...Stop Pussy-footing Around, and tell the Grand Ayatollah Ali Khomeinei to STOP enriching U-235, Islam doesn't need city-busting bombs and Aggressive Jihad...in the 21st Century." Stop it Now!

If Syria, Jordan, Turkey and Egypt would combine their collective intellects into an effective group of skilled educators, engineers, chemists, mathmaticians, and scientists to form a Hard-nosed Unity Group ...and with your 'Statesmen of Jurisprudence', ready to send a Tough-minded, High-Level Envoy Directly to Tehran, to tell that Old Goat Ayatollah That His War-Games Are Over; then over to Saudi Arabia For Some More Tough Diplomacy, and the whole wide world might then have a legitimate Hope for tomorrow's future generations!

Is it too late?



Some Muslim Men Say...

"We have come to the U.S. with Good Intentions, and...We Wish To Be Killed For The Sake of God."


Strange behavior; It's really difficult to argue with that type of logic. reb

Mohamed said...

Mr. reb,

Don't you have any other bad thing to describe Muslims?!!

a) At least there is 10.000.000 terrorists among Muslims.
b) Muslims beat their wives, Sharia told them to do so.
c) Muslims hide their wives in black 'bags'.
d) Muslims hate Jews.
e) Muslims have a 'Kill-culture'.
f) Muslims want to kill all non-Muslims.
g) Muslim kings have tens of wives.
h) Muslims don't respect Freedom of Expression

What's next on the list?

Killing their sons?!!!

Yes, you said it.
Muslim families kill their daughters, it's "honor-killing". And sure, Hamas use their sons and daughters as human shields.

What's next?!!

Flesh-eating creatures?!!

Sorry Mr. reb, but when they were able to brainwash you by these things, then I believe they can convince you that man is a 6 legged animal.


Mohamed, now you are being unfair.

I Have Never...suggested that ALL
Muslims are bad or evil, never. What I have said is that perhaps 10 % of muslims have been persuaded by their Most Radical Leaders, and by whipping these poor people into a blood-letting frenzy, into committing inhuman deadly crimes, and moderate muslims, either through fear or perhaps because they "don't wish to become involved in a dangerous controversy", they turn a deaf-ear and a blind-eye to terrible things within their culture. Is that wrong?

Some muslims view their wives as 'property', not equal "life-partners". Some insist that they wear the burkha in public. Some hate all Jews. Some muslims prefer that girls & women have only a rudimentary education. Some muslims want to either kill or convert all non-muslims, etc etc

One Terrible Example: When a parent or close relative kills a young girl to save the 'family honor', there is, in most cases, little or no legal retributive penalty within the Sharia Law. Most American courts would rule that crime as 'Murder in the Highest Degree'.

Have I missed something; am I terribly wrong in that viewpoint?

Example Two: How do "moderate muslims" feel about the suicide- bombers within the muslim culture,
and what justification do they offer to the outside world for Madrid, London, Mumbai, or New York City? I've heard none.

Since other cultures also exist in the same region, share the same blood-lines, I don't believe the Mosaic (Jewish) Law would ever justify these horror crimes, or a Rabbi would ever condone them.

Third Example: Shi'a Leader Ali Khameinei through his disgusting little mouth-piece Ahmadinejad has publicly stated that he intends to wipe six million people "off the map"! If I were a 'Sunni Muslim Devotee' I would be deeply embarrassed & apologetic of these insane public rantings.
But I am neither Shiite or Sunni,
only a much-puzzled American senior citizen, trying hard to unravel the very complex nature, and multi-divisions & contradictions within your Islamic Traditions.

Reading small portions of the complex Qur'an isn't much help, and I don't have that much time left anyway.

I came to your 'Understanding Islam' Site to Learn; and I will leave your Link on-site here for others to enjoy.

I am sorry if you misunderstood my intention, but differences sometimes generate heated discussions, and these opposing views are all still there.

I fully agree with your public stand on those nasty "reviles". At least, we have reached a commonality on that one subject.

Your friend, reb
_______________________________ www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com



Religious Suicidal Killers Are Not New.

In WWII (1944 - 1945) the Americans were forced to deal with radical Japanese Pilots that flew their planes into cargo shipping, and into U.S. Navy Ships!

They were known as 'Kamikazi", or ........ 'The Devine Wind'. reb

Mohamed said...

Mr. reb,

Bombing Markets, Coffee Shops, Trains and Hotels Are Not New Too.

Since 1938 (1938 - 1948) the Palestinians were forced to deal with radical Zionists Israeli terrorists that were planting their bombs in bags bombing civil Arabs! Palestinians were forced to declare their resistance against Israelis.

They were known as Lehi, Irgun, Haganah that were integrated in the IDF later.



Yes Mohamed,

The "religious killers" are everywhere, then, now, and forever. I've often wondered about these pious rascals on both sides, and what this world would be like without them. What would their leaders do then?

Today I imagined a very busy Palestine,
with 4 % unemployment instead of 32 %, and happy, productive families, a chicken for every pot, and a toyota or volkswagon in every garage, and jewish & arab kids playing soccor 'til dusk!

Nobody would dare to light a bomb, or fire a mortar or rocket, to restart that stupid war!
I know, you'll say that I'm an old and foolish impractical dreamer.


Anonymous said...

Mr Reb,

Show me a Truthful Muslim, and I'll
show you a Courageous Infidel!

Gregg - Knoxville, TN