Sunday, May 31, 2009

SUMMARY OF WWII


10 things Americans should
know about World War II

by Rick Atkinson

The first thing to know about World War II is that it was a big war, a war that lasted 2,174 days and claimed an average of 27,600 lives every day, or 1,150 an hour, or 19 a minute, or one death every three seconds. One, two, three, snap. One, two, three, snap.

In an effort to get our arms around this greatest calamity in human history, let's examine 10 things every American ought to know about the role of the U.S. Army in WWII.

1) The U.S. Army was a weakling when the European war began in earnest on Sept. 1, 1939, with the German invasion of Poland. The U.S. Army ranked 17th among armies in size and combat power, just behind Romania. It numbered 190,000 soldiers. It would grow to nearly 8.5 million by 1945.

When mobilization began in 1940, the Army had only 14,000 professional officers. The senior ranks were dominated by political hacks of certifiable military incompetence. Not a single officer on duty in 1941 had commanded a unit as large as a division in World War I. The Army's cavalry chief assured Congress that four well-spaced horsemen could charge and destroy an enemy machine-gun nest without sustaining a scratch.

2) The war affected all Americans. A total of 16 million served in uniform; virtually every family had someone in harm's way; virtually every American had an emotional investment in our Army. That WWII army of 8.5 million existed in a country of about 130 million; today we have an army of roughly 500,000 in a country of 307 million.

Still, the U.S. Army mobilized only 90 divisions by the end of the war. That compares to about 300 for Germany; 400 for the Soviet Union, and 100 for Japan.

One reason was the gradual recognition that the Soviet Union was fighting most of the German army. Another was the recognition that the United States could provide industrial muscle unlike any nation on earth, to build tanks, airplanes, and trucks, to make things like penicillin and synthetic rubber, not only for us but for our Allies. That meant keeping a fair amount of manpower in factories and other industrial jobs, while getting women into the workforce as never before.

3) The U.S. Army did not win World War II by itself. We can be proud of our role, but we must not be delusional, chauvinistic or so besotted with American exceptionalism that we falsify history.

The war began 27 months before America joined the fray. It was fought on six continents, a global conflagration unlike any seen before or since. The British had done a great deal in those 27 months to keep alive the hopes of the western democracies. Russia lost an estimated 26 million people in the war, and its military did most of the bleeding for the Allied cause. By the end of the war, there were about 60 nations on the Allied side. In Italy alone, Brazilians, Poles, Nepalese, New Zealanders, French, Italians and a number of other nationalities fought beside us.

4) The U.S. Army's role in the liberation of Europe didn't start at Normandy. It started in North Africa.

President Franklin Roosevelt and British Prime Minister Winston Churchill agreed that the first task was to defeat Germany, but they didn't agree on where to begin. U.S. military leaders wanted to cross the English channel and head straight for Berlin. Britain wanted to start by attacking the periphery of the Axis empire in North Africa. Roosevelt eventually sided with the British.

The initial landings occurred on Nov. 8, 1942, in Morocco and Algeria. Over the next two months, the Allies gained air supremacy and almost complete control of the seas, strangling the Axis supply line from Europe. After Africa came Sicily, then the campaign in Italy. Then came Normandy.

5) The U.S. Army for a long time after we entered the war was not very good. Part of the WWII mythology is that all the brothers were valiant and all the sisters were virtuous. War is the most human of enterprises, and it reveals every human foible and frailty, as well as human virtues: cowardice and tomfoolery, as well as courage and sacrifice. The Greatest Generation appellation is nonsense.

In the first couple years of American involvement the Army was burdened with clearly inferior equipment and commanders. Those first couple years of war required a sifting out, an evaluation at all levels within the Army of the competent from the incompetent, the physically fit from the unfit.

It has sometimes been argued that in an even fight, when you matched one American battalion or regiment against a German battalion or regiment, the Germans tended to be superior, the better fighters. But who said anything about an even fight? Global war is a clash of systems. What matters is which system can generate the combat power needed to prevail, whether it's in the form of the 13,000 Allied warplanes available on D-day; the 10:1 American advantage in artillery ammunition often enjoyed against the Germans; or the ability to design, build and detonate an atomic bomb. What matters is which system can produce the men capable of organizing the shipping, the rail and truck transportation, the stupendous logistical demands of global war.

Germany could not cross the English Channel, which is only 21 miles wide, to invade Britain. The United States projected power across the Atlantic, the Mediterranean and the Pacific and into Southeast Asia and the Indian subcontinent. Power-projection, adaptability, versatility, ingenuity, preponderance -- these are salient characteristics of the U.S. Army in WWII.

6) The U.S. Army in WWII comprised much more than riflemen. It included, for example, the Army Air Forces, which in turn embodied the single greatest military disparity between us and our enemies: the ability to flatten 50 German cities, to firebomb Tokyo, to reduce Hiroshima and Nagasaki to ashes.

Those fleets of airplanes -- a thousand bombers at a time attacking enemy targets -- are perhaps the most vivid emblem of the "arsenal of democracy" that outfitted our military and our allies. The United States built 3.5 million private cars in 1941; for the rest of the war, we built 139. Instead, in 1943 alone, we built 86,000 planes, 45,000 tanks and 648,000 trucks.

All of this gave the U.S. Army a mobility that permitted the rapid movement and concentration of firepower. The German army relied on hundreds of thousands of horses to pull their artillery and to haul supplies.

7) The Army remained under civilian control throughout the war. When the president made the decision to invade North Africa contrary to the advice of virtually all of his military advisers, he signed the order: "Franklin D. Roosevelt, commander in chief." Harry S. Truman, not the military, made the decision to drop the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

8) The U.S. Army in WWII was perhaps the greatest agent of social change in the country during the 20th century. This is ironic given the inherent conservatism of the institution.

In 1939, fewer than 4,000 blacks served in the Army. By early 1944, that number exceeded 750,000, and the disparity between the avowed principles for which the nation fought and the stark, hypocritical reality of American life in the 1940s gave impetus and legitimacy to the civil rights movement. Many African Americans endorsed what they called the "Double V" campaign: a righteous struggle for victory over both enemies abroad and racism at home.

Restrictions on combat roles for black troops gradually eased; a group of fighter pilots known as the Tuskeegee airmen demonstrated the inanity of those restrictions, including assertions that black pilots lacked the reflexes to be good fighter pilots. It's hard to imagine Barack Obama elected as president of the United States in 2008 without the accelerated social change of WWII.

The Army in WWII was also an overwhelmingly male institution, and exclusively male in senior leadership roles. But the extraordinary demand for military manpower meant that women were drawn into the national workplace in exceptional numbers; it's hard to put that genie back in the bottle.

The Army was a democratizing institution, too, even though it was and remains relentlessly hierarchical. Of 683 graduates from Princeton University's Class of '42, 84 percent were in uniform by 1945, and those serving as enlisted men included the valedictorian and salutatorian; 25 classmates would die during the war, including 19 killed in combat.

9) The history of the U.S. Army in WWII is among the greatest stories of the 20th century. It ought to be taught and learned as a story, with character, plot, conflict and denouement.

John Updike wrote that WWII was the 20th century's central myth, "a vast imagining of a primal time when good and evil contended for the planet, a tale of Troy whose angles are infinite and whose central figures never fail to amaze us with their size, their theatricality, their sweep."

Two cautionary notes: first, as the British historian Sir Michael Howard warns, military history has "all too often been written to create and embellish a national myth, and to promote deeds of derring-do." Triumphalism is not the point.

Second, we should not view the present and the future through the distorting lens of the past. One residue of WWII is a tendency to narrowly define power in military terms, and to define threats in terms of traditional human enemies bent on doing ill. Climate change and our addiction to foreign oil have the potential to do more damage to American sovereignty and our way of life than anything al-Qaida can pull off.

10) They died for you. We've talked about the WWII Army as both an organism and a machine, an institution that grew stupendously, that demonstrated flexibility and adaptability. But we ought never forget that at the core of this story is suffering. The U.S. military sustained almost 300,000 battle deaths during the war, and about 100,000 others from accidents, disease, suicide. Many of those deaths were horrible, premature and unspeakably sad. One, two, three, snap.

War is a clinic in mass killing, yet there's a miracle of singularity; each death is as unique as a snowflake or a fingerprint. The most critical lesson for every American is to understand, viscerally, that this vast host died one by one by one; to understand in your bones that they died for you.


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60 comments:

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Editor's Comment:
__________________________________

A General Lack of Awareness of American History is crystal clear;
this is especially true, about the greatest world-wide tragedy of the 20th Century.*

For this reason, this weblog seeks to inform today's students, and to refresh interest in this vital subject. Without even a cursory knowledge of our recent past, serious future tragedies are inevitable. reb
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*(File, print > then help with the distribution. Thank you! )
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www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

rjf said...

Some things-like your reprint of WWII facts unfortunately will never be taught or even made aware to the vast majority of Americans.

People these days are pretty well wrapped up in modern culture and for sure schools will never touch it. I don't remember any thing coming my way and that was back in grad-1969! So good luck with that with todays Idol fans.

Its a shame such a great war was fought with tremendous valor for someone like this A**hole President to screw up in a short time!

Anonymous said...

REB, Some things, like your 10-Pt
Fact Sheet on WWII will never see daylight. The vast majority in this modern culture simply doesn't care. Today's pinheads are Idol and Celebrity Worshipers.

Our schools will never touch it.

American wars today are fought with courage and valor by volunteer military families, and DC politicians play mind-games.

rjf, Oak Ridge

Anonymous said...

Swiped from "When Evil Prospers" weblog.

"Some people wonder all their lives
if they have made a difference. U.S. Marines don't have that problem." Ronald Reagan

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

June 2nd, 2009

Two Vital Points For Discussion - (No Courtesy Stop Planned For Israel's Benjamin Netanyahoo.) __________________________________

a) Pres Obama's AirForce One lands in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia for a pleasant visit with King Abdullah, with a carefully crafted speech designed to "reach out" to muslim nations; next stop Cairo, Egypt.

Critics warn: "These are two of the three nations that are among the most virulent, 'hate-Israel-police-state theocracies' to be found anywhere. Only Iran has trumped them all with a publicly announced intention to wipe Israel off the map".
>
Item b): Canadian National Health Care: Waiting Lists For Primary Exams Are Intolerably Long for the Critically Ill.

(Computerized Waiting-List Item)

"If person named on this computer-generated letter is deceased, please accept our sincere apologies."

Q. Is this Acceptable CHANGE for the USA?

(Anonymous Comments are welcomed, with just a first name & town.) reb
__________________________________
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ITEM: Yes, it's true. This old editor has decided to take a much-needed vacation from Posting Articles. Since our 'Summary of WWII' by Rick Atkinson...was probably the best and "most needed" we've ever done, well...
It's About Time!
>
Q. What's Next?

Well, I still intend to occcasionally comment here, and on other worthy blogs, but more postings are no longer top- priority; I've run out of gas, and I need a rest. It's just that simple. Thank you one & all for your goodwill. reb
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www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com
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Anonymous said...

SH,

I think this is a much better question: Is the status quo acceptable for the USA?

Railroad Bill

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

"Railroad Bill" is not a familiar handle; framing a more complete question might help. reb
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SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed,

I've been waiting patiently for your response to S/H Posting of "Summary of WWII", and I believe the delay was directly tied to Obama's visit to Riyadh & Cairo.

This morning I saw and heard a small, but very important part of his speech. I refer to the fact that Prez Obama has Two daughters, and NO sons. How very fortunate!

Obama's speech went right to the heart of the multiplcity of problems facing these manifold differences.

a) The vastly differing view of the role of one-half of the human race, namely women and girls.

b) One culture believes in a non-equal, ever-subservient role, where men are always dominant, by devine right!

c) The other cultural heritage believes in the absolute equality of opportunity of education...in mathmatics & science, in astronomy, in engineering & architecture, in medicine, in business, in law, and in the teaching professions.
>
To legally deny these basic human rights, is to ultimately stifle all progress within that culture, and the basic set of rules governing 'conduct & thought', leading to class-distinctions and the festering of ancient hatreds, and the finger-pointing of blame, and thusly to Inevitable War.
>
Mohamed's Views are always most welcome on Snake Hunters weblog. reb
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www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Wowee! The muslim brotherhood received an earful today from an American President!

Bravo, Obama!!! Freedom of Religion!

The Inherent Equal Rights of Women!

King Abdullah & Prez Mubarak, and all fair-minded moderate muslims of the Middle East will have much to think about and discuss. How will Iran's Grand Ayatollah Ali Khomeinei & Ahmadinejad react?

Is this the Beginning of Real CHANGE in that troublesome part of the world? - We shall see. reb
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www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

June 2, 2009 - Reuters News

Communist Dictator of Venezuela Hugo Chavez wisecrack to Fidel Castro:

"Hey, Obama has just nationalized nothing more and nothing less than General Motors. Comrade Obama!

Fidel, careful or we are going to end up to his Right", Chavez joked on a live television broadcast.

reb
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SNAKE HUNTERS said...

A Short Comment From Iran:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gr. Ayatollah Ali Khomeinei...

"Words & slogans won't change anything!"

Laughing-Out-Loud. reb
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www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

Anonymous said...

Mr Snake-Hunter, I met you only once at Starbucks. I apologize for not commenting before today.

I really enjoyed your expose' chapter on Post-Modern Villain, thank you so much.
xx
Also, your history chapter on WWII
xx
The She-Wolf's Litter stands savagely at bay, snarling and whimpering, and damn few have an intelligent comment to offer.

All are "too busy", too involved with trivia, too enamoured with celebrity worship to generate a valid comment on any subject.

The Vast-Left, and their co-equals on the Vast-Right are a sad bunch, totally consummed by Media propaganda, too isolated with Churchanity, with abortion and the gay-marriage issue. God help us!

We have lost our national heritage of freedom for all.

Have a nice long vacation.
J.J. - Oliver Springs, TN
____

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Our Old Friend Greybeard Phones In This Comment...

"Obama laid an egg in Cairo, and a
white rose at Buchenwald."

Greybeard Albert
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SNAKE HUNTERS said...

June 6th, 1944 Marks A Proud Day Of Rememberance for the Allied Forces that assaulted Hitler's Fortress Europe; an upbeat and hopeful day in history's most grim and deadliest conflict on six continents, and a dozen nations suffered.

The Russians were destined to lose
26 million souls before Nazi Germany's Panzer Divisions were destroyed, and Hitler's factories were obliterated, and the Death Camps of Hapless Jews Liberated!

U.S. and British Ships bombarded coastal guns, 5,000 bombers roared over-head, Paratroopers dropped behind enemy lines, and Rangers climbed the cliffs to reach the high ground above the blood-soaked beaches far below.

Every young trooper that day was asked to shoulder the responsibility, and the hope of a return to freedom & justice for all nations, all cultures. The outstanding bravery of ordinary young men, doing extra-ordinary duty.

General Eisenhower's Allied Assault on Nazi Imperialism was successful. The U.S. "Arsenal of Democracy" was geared-up to provide the war material To Assure Freedom & Justice For The Next Generation.

Read "Summary Of WWII", then pass it along to those that are unaware of those times... 65 years ago today. reb
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www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

Debbie said...

You are correct that there is a failure to teach American and World history factually.

Look at Obama's speech to the Muslims - if was chocked full of false historical statements. You would think someone on his staff would have notice the false statements.

Debbie Hamilton
Right Truth

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Thanks Debbie. Also, there's some hopeful results in the June 7th election in Lebanon. M14 (Hariri)wins over Iranian/Syrian Puppets M8 - Hezbullah (Nazrullah's Militia)! reb
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SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Rick Atkinson is a War Historian. His "Day Of Battle" and "Army At Dawn" won the Pulitzer. reb
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SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Nothing goes entirely as you or I would want it; This "Summary" was written by a Combat Infantry reporter, mostly about the U.S. Army & U.S. Air Force in WWII.

Rick Atkinson is an "Army Brat"...

There was no mention of Our Magnificent Pacific Naval & Air Battles, Island Hopping LCI Beach Landings & the Body-Counts in that Vast Pacific Theater of War that confronted Imperial Japan. Nothing about the Japanese in Manchuria in 1931, nor the "Rape Of Nanking" in 1937. More history that deserves to be told to our Baby-Boomers!

So, naturally that offended some military folks that still have those vitally important memories! (No offense intended, Tony).

Atkinson was with a Major-General David Petraeus in Kuwait & Iraq; you can read "In The Company of Soldiers" with the 101st Division, for the more current & up-dated history.

reb
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www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

I just can't help wondering...If any of my friends have ever heard of a Canadian Loonie-Tune, Billionaire Greenie Environmentalist?

* He Advocates the "Collapse of Industrialized Civilizations" and puts his money where his mouth is! Hmmmm. Sound Familiar?

His name is Maurice Strong, and you can get a handle on this George Soros/Al Gore typical on...

All American Blogger.
>

Just Tell'Em an old Snake Hunter alerted you to this clown. reb
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www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

NOW HEAR THIS !
__________________________________
Go To S/H Links

Tap > 'The Redhunter' 6/7/09

"The Speech Obama Should Have Given,
In Cairo"

(Then pass it along to friends - reb)
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SNAKE HUNTERS said...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
IMPORTANT NEW LINK:

www.amillennialist.blogspot.com

>> then - Amillennialist Contra Mundum

> to some great new posts! reb
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Tom the Redhunter said...

Good stuff, Ralph. I especially lime #5. People tend to forget or not know the relative differences, advantages and disadvantages, that each army had vs the other.

Military history is poorly taught or not taught at all. For the most part all that is taught in public schools today is the internment of the Japanese, Rosie the Riveter, and the atomic bombs.

This post should be required reading in all our schools

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

IRAN'S YOUNG PEOPLE ARE SHOWING GENUINE COURAGE IN OPPOSING THE ONE-MAN RULE OF ALI-KHOMENEI...

Now, will the "moderate muslims" of the MiddleEast support them, or will they play it safe, remaining silent, until the mullahs have their coveted bomb? reb
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Debbie said...

I'm not the student of history that I should be, but sometimes even I am appalled at how little people know, or the misconceptions they have, about the simple truths like these.

Debbie Hamilton
Right Truth

Mohamed said...

Mr. reb,

I believe I expressed my opinion about Obama's speech. Why I can't see it published?

(!!!)

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed,

IF you posted a comment about Obama's Speech in Cairo, that is very good, but I did not receive it; Please send it again, and I Will Publish It!
>
Even more important to me, is your perspective of 'Summary Of WWII'.

Was it interesting for you? Do you think it provided rare and valuable
historical information? Was it accurate? Would Egyptian students gain an important historical lesson from these few pages if translated?
>
I believe American Students really need more World & American 20th Century History, to Avoid & Counteract the Vicious Propaganda of Our Billionaire-Manipulated TV Media! George Soros is just ONE among many others! (Read it in our "PostModern Villain"...find it in our Archives.)
>
Mohamed's Views Are Valued Here! reb
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www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

Mohamed said...

Maybe it's my mistake.

Any way, I didn't hear all of Obama's speech, I was busy studying for my Law faculty exams, I heard only a part at the beginning, but I heard the comments on TV programs.

A general view is that it contained positive points. Just considering Muslims as allies against terrorists, not themselves as the terrorists is a good thing. Giving a hand to share surpassing the obstacles that face us as human beings living together on this earth is a positive thing.
We're fed up with the stupid policy of the former Republican president G. W. Bush. Enough of considering Muslims as the enemy, enough of the IslamoPhobia, enough of seeing Muslims as radicals who want to enforce their rules upon the world. That foolish man by his stupid policy occupied two Muslim states converting them into ruins.

The speech was a good positive thing, but a speech still a speech, just words. Making them true and converting them into real actions is the next step. I believe speech is step no.1, and actions are steps no. 2,3,4,5. There is a lot to do.

-----------

About WWII summary, I didn't read it yet, I think I'll need a translator to read it, there're many strange words.

-----------

You said something about me that I grew up in a culture that is rigidly intolerant of all other faiths, and yet I'm trained to listen to both sides.
Let me clarify two things. The first is that I'm the product of my community, so if I was a strict-minded young man, so it's my community. If I was open-minded, ready to accept other opinions, so it's also the my community. The second thing is, .. guess what, I spent 13 years of my life in a school, bu not any school, a school that belong to, moderated and guided by the main beliefs of Muslim Brotherhood. Surprised you?!!

-----------

I can see you noticed the presence of "Amillennialist" on my blog. He\She is a very extremist Christian person of the kind who just want to defame Islam to prove how Christianity is good. He\She never wanted to make a real discussion, never tried to listen to the explains and evidences I provide to make him\her understand the verses or prophet sayings correctly. I knew him\her about 5 years ago, maybe more, and had many discussions without achieving any things, no meeting points, no will of understanding, using the worst reviles to describe holy things, I decided at the end to quit.

Any way, just to prove my theory, I'll make a test for Amillennialist on my blog, when he\she provided some verses and sayings of the prophet, so I'll provide some answers to them.
Just watch and see what will happen; two of these possibilities will happen; Amillennialist won't provide any comments at all about my answers, or he\she will ignore all my answers and will continue the reviling and the accusing.
You can watch, or even participate.

Mohamed

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed, this is just great! In the short time since finding your blog, I have seen your very great strides of improvement in reading/writing in English! You do have a fine & thoughtful mind.

I suspect that you are destined to become an important Egyptian Statesman some day, perhaps within a short decade!

This is why I believe that it is so necessary that Mohamed Fadly have an accurate grasp of verifiable 20th century world history. Do you see it?
>
Example: You recently believed that the USA was totally unjusified in dropping the A-bombs
on Hiroshima/Nagasaki to end that ghastly war, and had no knowledge of Imperial Japanese brutality in Manchuria from 1931 to the "Rape of Nanking" in 1937!

In 6 short weeks (read the history)
the Japanese killed 300,000 rural farmers...all Chinese Innocents, and enslaved many more.

This mass-killing was more - innocent dead humans - than Hiroshima/Nagasaki combined!
>
Allow me to pose a question, regarding Mr Amillennialist, no disrespect intended:

You readily admit that you were trained for 13 years in a special school run by The Muslim Brotherhood, and they had certain negative views of Jews, plus the reliable "positive views" and the
"absolute truths" contained in all muslim cultures...correct?

Now, let us imagine that Mr "A" had
also a 13 year "indoctrination" in 'Christian Values' but he felt he needed to also study the Muslim Faith, to discover "other" values.

In the course of his muslim study, he found some disturbing & violent
quotes in their "holy book" that dealt directly with the absolute
submission of, and extreme violence directed at...any stubborn non-believers! Infidels!

Does this make him an "Extremist Christian Person"? I think not.
>
IF the three of us were sitting peacefully at a round-table discussion, I would like very much to be the Agnostic Moderator!
>
Because I have seen no other muslims in your 'comment section',
I will presume to have a much wider
possible audience here...or on one of my other posts, where I can offer guarantees of a clean and decent behavior, an absence of rude hecklers, with No Reviles Allowed!

Here, on a level playing field, you can "test" Mr "A", provide him with your Answers, and I'll offer to be the Silent Witness, until asked a question. Each side may call approved witnesses to this friendly discussion. Muslim, Christian and Agnostic scholars might be invited, plus other well-behaved persons that understand our no-nonsense rules.

Will friend Mohamed accept this offer?

Will Amillennialist ?

reb
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www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Gentlemen!

I have just received five paragraphs of well-chosen words from Mr "A" answering an earlier argument by Mohamed.

I am temporarily withholding these comments...until I receive a friendly agreement from both sides, to continue with a serious and informative discussion.

Both sides may use documentary evidence from the Holy Qur'an and the Holy Bible...to support their
own unique perspectives.

Gentlemen: Do you both agree? If so, I suggest that we begin on...

"Memorial Parade" post. reb
__________________________________
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

GENTLEMEN:

Two Words - "I Accept" on the 'Memorial Parade' post, will be the signal for reb to Clear The 3 Comments...

and begin an interesting "Fair & Even" start for this discussion, where religious differences, or global jihad, with historical perspectives, and "devine quotes", are all valid issues for honest debate...and where this editor will refrain from comment, unless asked to participate.

If American Policy Surfaces, or Bush Administration Actions are ridiculed by either side, this editor reserves the right to speak up with a vigorous defense of this nation's fundamental principles!

reb
_________________________________
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

Mohamed said...

Mr. reb,

Thanks for your kind words, but I don't think I would be a Statesman, I would be either a lawman or a Graphic designer. Who knows?
------

I'm not condemning America for killing people in this war, all involved states did similar horrible things, that's the miserable fact of wars, but what I condemn America for is the use of mass destruction weapons. Islam condemns such weapons that don't know the child from the combat.
------

About Amillennialist. No, he isn't extremist because he state some verses of the Qur'an twisting them out of their context to make Islam, Muslims and their Holy Book as terrorists, no, that's not the reason, I would discuss, explain and clarify the real meanings of these verses and sayings of the prophet, but he never allowed me to do that. He only wanted to keep attacking and just attacking, without listening at all to my clarifications.
Not to listen to other views, not to hear what others believe in, not to try to think if preconceived ideas are right or not. These are the principles of extremism.

Anyway, let us make the test for him and see, will he make a real discussion arguing the evidences and explanations which I provide, or will he ignore my words and just continue to revile, attack and accuse. We will see!

I pleasingly agree to make the discussion on your blog, you're right, you have more audience here, I'll go to "Memorial Parade" post. I'll try to respond as soon as possible.

Regards,
Mohamed

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mohamed,
Thank you for accepting S/H offer to use one of our posts to continue
with a calm and serious discussion & perhaps a clarification of major differences.
>
If one feels an abuse of the rules, or a "revile", just type - Point of Order:...then follow with your objection...
>
>
>
After WWII, there was a fierce competition between the USSR's Dictatorship & the U.S.A seeking freedom and liberty for all of Europe, and beyond.

Search - Marshall Plan, Berlin Air-Lift & Berlin Wall.

Both super-powers had the A-Bomb &
ICBM technology, but neither dared
use the dreadful weapons of mass-destruction, so we had a Forty- year "cold war" instead.

Today, the world sees TWO nations with nuclear tech that threaten to use them; one is a Theocracy (Iran) claiming "devine guidance"...the other (No Korea) -a wild, communist donkey!
>
So, we hope our world leaders will have the wisdom & statesmanship to avoid a catastrophic WWIII.
>
See You on Memorial Parade! reb
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SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Mr. "A",
I have deleted all comments from
Memorial Parade post, and request that you both prepare an 'Opening Statement' there.

Your 6/18 comment is temporarily held back, but is still available if/when I click "Publish". reb
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Whhaaat? Another crooked American Billionaire with untouchable off-shore financial holdings (like George Soros) in under FBI scrutiny!

Search Wikipedia > for Sir Allen Stanford!
reb
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SNAKE HUNTERS said...

More Verifiable History...a reminder:

Russia's Nikita Khruschev placed IRBM Nukes on Fidel Castro's Cuba,
threatening the eastern one-half of the USA in 1962. See 'Cuban Missile Crisis'...

He said, "Your grand-children will live under Communism!"
He also said, "We will bury you!"
>
President Ron Reagan believed that Pirates & International Thugs Must Be Stopped, if Nations Are To Remain Sovereign & Free of Oppression. reb

Anonymous said...

DF Comment on North Korea:

"Now think about this. If some dirt-poor, starving Fourth World Country run by Mini-Me can sucker the world's best accessoried diplomats for two decades, imagine what a cultured, oil-rich country run by the apocalyptic Islamic crackpots can accomplish in the next few years."

Enjoy your weekend.

Dan Friedman, NYC

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

ONE WEEK OF CHAOS IN IRAN

One Million Young Men & Women In Angry Protest Rallies Spreading All
Across This Land. Signs In English To Reach A Wider Audience!

Death To The Dictator! We Want Freedom Now, Where's My Vote? Down With The Mullahs!

Ayatollah Ali Khomeinei threatens;
Ugly lil puppet Ahmadinejad silent.

Lives on the line; heads thumped, blood splattered clothing. Several fatalities...News Reporters Restricted To Hotel Rooms, Live Pictures From Cell-phones Cannot Be Stopped From Reaching A Wider World. Women risk Death by Stoning!
>
Obama meekly says: "Iran's Government is Being Unjust." Oh Really, Gee Golly, that's being pretty bold, isn't it? Shouldn't we
just delay comments until things settle down, so we can "negotiate" with these thugs?

Ali Khomeinei repeats, "Death To America"... Ah, Schucks Dude, that ain't nice.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Anonymous said...

Significant!

Iranian Protesters Have A New Chant:

In addition to "Allah-o-Akbar" the crowds are now chanting...

"Marg Bar Dictator!"
Death to the Dictator!

submitted by
Dan Friedman, NYC

Anonymous said...

fyi
GW Bush did NOT declare war against all Muslims--he often said there were peaceful Muslims.

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Dear fyi,

For your information...

S/H Blog will no longer publish unsigned anonymous comments!

We Do Appreciate at least a first name, initials, and your city or town; a matter of common courtesy.

reb

Amillennialist said...

Anonymous,

Islam is great -- unless you're a non-Muslim, apostate, woman, or little girl (or infant, according to Iran's religious leaders).

There may be moderate Muslims, but Islam itself is not moderate, for Muhammad declared:

"I have been made victorious with terror," and, "It is not fitting for a prophet to take captives until he has made slaughter in the land."

It is not only false, it is suicidally-foolish, to take Muslims who don't engage in violence as representative of what Muhammad practiced and he and his allah commanded.

I do intend to reply to Mohamed's comments. I've been having some trouble with XP (I already lost one post here); this is from Safe Mode.

Regards all,

Amillennialist

Tom the Redhunter said...

The situation in Iran is horrible. The pent-up rage of the people at the injustice of the system has boiled over. The brutality of the regime is on display for all to see.

And our president? As the Confederate Yankee blogger said, "Obama got his 3AM call and refused to pick up the phone."

Sad that our president can't stand up for liberty and utter even the mildest of criticisms until pressured to do so for over a week. But then, all he cares about is getting his precious negotiations over the Iranian nuclear program, which as zero chance of success anyway.

The signal he is sending to dictators everywhere is that it's ok to crack heads because he will do nothing.

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Islam's Apologists spend their time
spinning the clear quotes in the Qur'an, or the unambiguous Shari'a Law Authoritative Dictums, but they avoid discussing the suicidal bombing of innocents in the luxury hotels in Mumbai, India. There are no words to justify the RR bombings of Madrid, or of the Airport in London, nor the family tragedies suffered in New York City on 9/11/2001.

No apologies for 300 years of Wahhabi Terrorism in Saudi Arabia, none at all for the spreading tentacles of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt since 1928, or the brutal stoning of women and young girls in Iran, or the "honor killings" in Allah's Land.
>
But today, Fox News & CNN has shut down for hours when the "King of Pop" dies at fifty years of age.

Geraldo Rivera was near tears.

In tribute, we must all join them in a shocked state of numbness, and respectful mourning. Shouldn't we light some candles? I for one, am speechless with grief for my country. reb
__________________________________
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Three-fifteen PM Thursday -->
Wacko-Jacko is pronounced dead, and CNN and Fox News both devote exclusive coverage to the fast revolving images of a spinning, duck-walking, crotch-grabbing, singing, white-gloved celebrity icon! Tons of fresh flowers and stuffed animals pour in, and
street-dancing mimickry erupt in the big cities, here and in Britain & France!

At the Apollo Theater in NYC, the marquee lights up in solemn tribute.
>>
No More Obama Daily News Briefs, not on our Tv Screens. No more Iranian Protests hoping for an end to the Grand Ayatollah's 30 years of Theocratic Rule. We are no longer witness to the bloody crackdown from Iran's Security Guards.

The World Attention Has Shifted to a Hollywood Celebrity Death. May The Gods We Humans Worship Save For Eternity,

The "King of Pop"!
>
FRIDAY, more of the same. reb
_________________________________
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

Anonymous said...

Greybeard Phones This In...
He's heading north on the 5 Interstate, above Bakersfield:

"Obama-Mania has been replaced.... with a Wacko-Jacko Mania!!!

Greybeard Albert Myers
__________________________________

Anonymous said...

Greybeard and reb,

Did it ever occur to you guys that in this age of instaneous communication and entertainment seeking, that Michael Jackson may have had a greater and more profound effect on lives of more individuals that Ayahtollah Khomenei?

Just wondering.

Railroad Bill

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Entertainment Seeking? O.K.

Profound effect? The Duck-Walk, and
in Germany in 2002, we saw an infant with a towel covering the head...dangled for just an instant, over the rail, from a four story balcony! Was that...

Entertainment or Psychosis?
__________________________________

Amillennialist said...

It's better than what Khomeini said was permissible to do with infants.

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

A Reader Observes...

"Something must be wrong with a man
who is far more concerned with a Jew building a house in Israel, than with Muslims building a nuclear bomb in IRAN."

- Bert Perlinsky

Submitted by Dan Friedman, NYC

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

To Dan Friedman,

I would only add this to Bert Perlutsky's comment...

Iran's Gaza Puppet HAMAS...

calls for Israel's destruction in it's Charter. reb
___________________________________
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

Anonymous said...

Joan Sharon Offers This Tidbit:

Obama's Obsolete Iran Policy {on-line}

The audacity of hope gives way to the timidity of realism, by author

Bret Stephens
___________________________

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

WHAT'S HAPPENING - JUNE 30, 2009
__________________________________
Rasmussen (Honeymoon) Poll
>
Obama, Strong Approval 31%
B.O. Strong Disapproval 33%
B.O. General Approval At 54%
>
G.W. Bush {^} on Iraqi Sovereignty Day.
Maliki: "We wouldn't be here without the U.S."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chaos in Calif - 24 Billion Deficit
U.S. Unemployment at 9.5%
Consumer Confidence v 49.3 is down 5.5% since May 1st.
>
Senator Al Franken, D, secures the 60/40 majority in the Senate!
>
Snake Hunter Predictions: A Balanced Congress, and a Two-Party
Governance Returns by Nov 2010.
>
Gingrich/Romney on Nat. Ticket in 2012.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Israel's Ehud Barack: "The world is having second thoughts {v} about IRAN after the election, and mass demonstrations; Iran is determined to defy the whole world."
__________________________________
www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com

Anonymous said...

See:
http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com

http://www.homa.org/
________

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

Life, Liberty, And The Pursuit of All Of Those Who Threaten It! reb
________________________________

Mohamed said...

Mr. reb,

Just explaining the Hadith of the prophet about making victories by terror. I hope you publish it.

Terror in that Hadith doesn't mean that Muslims make massacres and kill everyone on their way, or that Muslims are vampires who spill the blood of the enemy everywhere, so the enemy is afraid of them because of that.
But the terror in that Hadith is a moral feeling of terrifying inside the hearts of the enemies that they can't win battles against Muslim, a feeling that God throw in their hearts so that they can't fight.

I told you an example for that "Terror". You see the Palestinian-Israeli conflict? Can you realize the obvious power hole between both sides?
*F22 vs ..(Palestinians don't have any air-fighters),
*Mirkava Tanks vs ..(Neither Palestinians have any tanks),
*Smart Rocks vs Local-Made Rocks,
*Most Recent Radars vs nothing equivalent.
Israelis can see every spot in Palestine, when Palestinians don't own any radars or small plans with cameras. But on the other side, can you see the excessive power that is always used by Israel? Thousands of tons of explosives, thousands of the most advanced technological F16, F22, tanks. Thousands of well-trained soldiers.

However all of that and they can't beat that unarmed people!! However they use all their powers in every battle!! Why? That's the terror they feel inside their hearts.
Just see in their last wars against Palestinians.. After destroying everything on the ground in Gaza, dropping hundreds of tons of explosives, using banned weapons (Phosphorus bombs, DIME bombs). Beside; all that came after months of a full siege. After all that; you know what happened when Israeli soldiers went inside Gaza? They achieved nothing, they ran away in front of Palestinian resistance.
Why? That's because Muslims don't make victory in their battles against their enemies by the power or the weapons they own. Instead they make victory by the support of God even if they're weaker in physical power. It’s not about the tanks or air-fighters, but God’s support.

Another example from the prophet's life is; in a battle that was very hard to Muslims to enter, they had very few logistic support, it was very hot in the desert, but they had to face the enemy because of the preparing of the Byzants to attack Muslims. After thousands of miles towards the battle ground, Allah threw terror in the hearts of enemy leaders and soldiers that they left the battle ground even without facing Muslims. When the Muslim army arrived there, they kept for 20 days on the battle ground, which was considered as enough as making victory according to war custom in that time, then they turned back to Medina. That was a victory made by terror that God threw inside the hearts of the enemy. A victory was made without any blood spilled. A good or a bad thing, you think?!!

Thanks,

Mohamed

Amillennialist said...

Mohamed,

Are you talking about the time Muhammad went to fight the Byzantine army that wasn't there?

They weren't terrified, just absent.

Muhammad spun that one well, apparently.

Amillennialist said...

A little more thorough reply, I think (found this in an older, temporary file):

Mohamed, there are a few things wrong with your analysis:

Only those who misunderstand the Islamic mandate to enslave or slaughter all who refuse the "invitation" to Islam -- and those hoping to deceive non-Muslims into complacency -- discuss Muslims "make massacres and kill everyone on their way, or that Muslims are vampires who spill the blood of the enemy everywhere."

The key words are "everyone" and "everywhere."

The texts state clearly -- as do I, because I report what those documents say -- that if someone converts to Islam, leave them alone. If a "Person of the Book" -- Jew or Christian (or some other lucky souls depending on whom you ask) -- is willing to live as a slave and submit himself to vile degradation and humiliation in the name of Allah, then Muslims are not to kill him.

Brutalizing, disgracing, raping, extorting, and bullying him and his is "beautiful" though, since such behavior is consonant with Muhammad's Allah-pleasing example.

I told you an example for that "Terror". You see the Palestinian-Israeli conflict? Can you realize the obvious power hole between both sides?
*F22 vs ..(Palestinians don't have any air-fighters),
*Mirkava Tanks vs ..(Neither Palestinians have any tanks),
*Smart Rocks vs Local-Made Rocks,
*Most Recent Radars vs nothing equivalent.
Israelis can see every spot in Palestine, when Palestinians don't own any radars or small plans with cameras. But on the other side, can you see the excessive power that is always used by Israel? Thousands of tons of explosives, thousands of the most advanced technological F16, F22, tanks. Thousands of well-trained soldiers.


And yet they don't obliterate the "Palestinians," despite constant terrorism against their innocents.

They achieved nothing, they ran away in front of Palestinian resistance.
Why? That's because Muslims don't make victory in their battles against their enemies by the power or the weapons they own. Instead they make victory by the support of God even if they're weaker in physical power. It’s not about the tanks or air-fighters, but God’s support.


No, it's about human decency, something which, if the military advantage were reversed, you would not find among Muslims.

If during a time of impotence, Muslims maim and slaughter as much as they do (14,000 terrorist attacks since 9/11 alone, even using civilian planes as bombs), imagine what they'd do with actual military capability.

Another example from the prophet's life is; in a battle that was very hard to Muslims to enter, they had very few logistic support, it was very hot in the desert, but they had to face the enemy because of the preparing of the Byzants to attack Muslims. After thousands of miles towards the battle ground, Allah threw terror in the hearts of enemy leaders and soldiers that they left the battle ground even without facing Muslims.

When the Muslim army arrived there [. . . .]


. . . they found no one.

You're talking about the "Battle" of Tabuk, the time Muhammad went to fight a Byzantine army that wasn't there.

They weren't terrified, just absent.

Muhammad spun that one well, apparently.

Mohamed said...

hmm, Hadith refute these claims;

Read that Hadith;

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr:
The Prophet said, "Whoever killed a person having a treaty with the Muslims, shall not smell the smell of Paradise though its smell is perceived from a distance of forty years." Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 53, Number 391.

If a Muslim killed a non-Muslim >> He won't go to paradise.

Maybe you didn't read that Hadith before!

>
Human decency?!!

In a local newspaper in Arizona, December 2, 1982, an article By Janine Warell, Staff writer, in a speech with Meir Kahane, a Rabbi after the massacre of Sabra & Shatila that happened in Lebanon, in an area located under the siege of Israeli army led by A. Sharon, by the hands of Lebanese Forces Christian Militia Group, when approx. 700 to 3500 of unarmed men, women, children and old were killed.

Kahane said; "Jews shouldn't feel guilty over the recent massacre of hundreds of Palestinian civilians by right-wing Christian militiamen in Lebanon.", "We have nothing to feel guilty about" he said. "In fact they should have gone into Lebanon earlier." He said not only should the Palestinians have been removed, but that Israel should have "used every possible weapon and wiped them out physically." He said; "There is nothing immoral about killing a people which is dedicated to killing you."

Human decency!!!!

>
They weren't terrified, just absent.

Yes, their schedule was full, that they couldn't arrange some appointment to fight. Or maybe they didn't notice the presence of 30.000 soldier on their ground.(!!!!)

When Muslims stayed 20 days at Tabuk waiting for the coming of Byzantine army, but they didn't come. How should it be understood other than that Allah threw terror in the hearts of Byzantine army that they couldn't fight, and it was a prophet made without a fighting, without a drop of blood, instead made by terror.

>
Still waiting for your answers on Memorial Parade..

Amillennialist said...

How should it be understood other than that Allah threw terror in the hearts of Byzantine army

They weren't there.